SUCCESS at Last - Carbon in throat removal

[dstoenner]

You don't have any CLR?

Yes i have CLR but i am not putting an acid in my barrel no matter how “mild” it might be. The stainless grade our barrels are made of will rust. If they will rust then an acid will eat them.

I am going to try acetone and see how it does. I have now figured out that one soaking of Free All and a bronze brush loaded with JB will get out all the carbon in one pass of about 30 strokes.

David

 

[CharlieNC]

While reading this thread I decided to try Free All, I mean why not since I have tried most everything else. On a well used barrel which I cleaned with Iosso a year ago, the Free All loosened more carbon which the Iosso more readily removed. This is is a very effective combination, thanks for the hints!

 

[Fairchaser]

There’s a concept of carbon on and carbon off. There’s a certain amount of fouling that is beneficial for accuracy. Does anybody seek to maintain a certain amount of carbon in the barrel for this reason? Once you clean the barrel back down to steel, how many fouling shots are needed to bring back accuracy? My goal in cleaning is to maintain this balance of accuracy throughout the life of the barrel. While cleaning thoroughly is a good idea occasionally, I don’t think it’s necessary or even good to do this after each session. Jmo

 

[jelenko]

While reading this thread I decided to try Free All, I mean why not since I have tried most everything else. On a well used barrel which I cleaned with Iosso a year ago, the Free All loosened more carbon which the Iosso more readily removed. This is is a very effective combination, thanks for the hints!

How did you apply the Free All? How long did you let it soak?
When you used Iosso, how did you apply it? E.g., on a patch wrapped around a Parker Hale jag?
thanks

 

[CharlieNC]

How did you apply the Free All? How long did you let it soak?
When you used Iosso, how did you apply it? E.g., on a patch wrapped around a Parker Hale jag?
thanks

I thought the barrel was clean when I ran a patch saturated with carb cleaner, and it came out clean. Teslong showed the guts were a light gray, but no apparent black carbon which reflects why I thought the barrel was clean a year ago. As history the Brux barrel is 10 years old and shot a lot of steel, and it had only had cursory cleaning until I used the Iosso a year ago.

Next I plugged the chamber with a paper towel and sprayed FA into the muzzle, then immediately brass brushed to generate a stream of crud! After this repeated a couple of times, I decided a bit more aggressive action was called for and Iosso was applied on a patch wrapped around a nylon brush and pushed 25 tight fitting strokes. Then more of the brass brush wetted with FA for multiple strokes.

No soaking times, alternating FA soaked brass brush with Iosso patch on nylon brush, and only a little fire cracking remains. I was shocked at how much "soot" came out.

Heading to the 1000yd steel target range tomorrow to check out the performance. My plan is then to spray with FA and a few strokes of the brass brush and let it soak overnight.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I have tested the "clean barrel" thing to my satisfaction.

After cleaning all the way down to the steel. My first group is often one of the smallest of the day.

And conversely, many times the very last group is the smallest of the day!!!

Since switching to TZ powders exclusively, I only clean out of guilt. When I clean... I clean.

 

[jaygorski]

Yes i have CLR but i am not putting an acid in my barrel no matter how “mild” it might be. The stainless grade our barrels are made of will rust. If they will rust then an acid will eat them.

I am going to try acetone and see how it does. I have now figured out that one soaking of Free All and a bronze brush loaded with JB will get out all the carbon in one pass of about 30 strokes.

David

Had this old reloading part soaking in CLR for almost 24hrs, do you see any damage? It doesn't hurt stainless either. Watch some of Erik Cortini's videos on the subject, might learn something.

 

[jaygorski]

Yes i have CLR but i am not putting an acid in my barrel no matter how “mild” it might be. The stainless grade our barrels are made of will rust. If they will rust then an acid will eat them.

I am going to try acetone and see how it does. I have now figured out that one soaking of Free All and a bronze brush loaded with JB will get out all the carbon in one pass of about 30 strokes.

David

 

[urbanrifleman]

Bore Tech Eliminator has never be eclipsed by anything I have tested for removing fouling and copper. I think you could drink the stuff.

But I am very skeptical about the claims that CLR "melts" hard carbon. Fouling maybe, but lots of things do that.

 

[Mauser06]

I will stand by my earlier post. I had nothing touch hard carbon till I went to an abraisive.

I filled the bore with CLR and soaked it overnight.

It was causing major accuracy issues and I was determined to get it clean one way or another. I tried soaks with various products.

My issue was I wasn't cleaning properly...from the beginning...and was 600-700rds in chasing my tail because it went from a hammer to a turd so I kept shooting and shooting. I was cleaning...but what I thought was clean...well. it wasn't. As was said, hard carbon doesn't mark up patches.


Lessons learned.



CLR and a lot of products remove powder fouling and soft carbon. Some a little quicker than others. I just haven't had the luck with hard carbon. I also don't run hundreds of brush strokes. Which maybe why I had such an issue in the first place.


I'm still curious what is "worse" on a barrel....50 brush strokes every cleaning or a couple strokes of IOSSO..or whatever abrasive you like to us.

 

[jelenko]

I'm still curious what is "worse" on a barrel....50 brush strokes every cleaning or a couple strokes of IOSSO..or whatever abrasive you like to us.

I have exactly the same question.

 

[jelenko]

Bore Tech Eliminator has never be eclipsed by anything I have tested for removing fouling and copper. I think you could drink the stuff.

But I am very skeptical about the claims that CLR "melts" hard carbon. Fouling maybe, but lots of things do that.

In my testing, CLR did not touch the hard carbon in the throat.

To test, I first cleaned with BoreTech Carbon Remover and 20 strokes of a bronze brush till the patches came out clean.

Checked the bore with a borescope.

Ran a couple patches of CLR through the barrel. Nothing
Let a patch soaked with CLR sit in the throat for 3 hours. Patch came out with no noticeable color. Dry patches passed through came out clean also.

Checked with borescope - confirmed no noticeable change in black stuff in the throat.

Short stroked Iosso on a patch wrapped around a worn bronze brush - 3 patches 10 strokes each patch.
Patched out the Iosso with BoreTech and dry patches.

Checked with borescope - very clean throat.

 

[urbanrifleman]

In my testing, CLR did not touch the hard carbon in the throat.

To test, I first cleaned with BoreTech Carbon Remover and 20 strokes of a bronze brush till the patches came out clean.

Checked the bore with a borescope.

Ran a couple patches of CLR through the barrel. Nothing
Let a patch soaked with CLR sit in the throat for 3 hours. Patch came out with no noticeable color. Dry patches passed through came out clean also.

Checked with borescope - confirmed no noticeable change in black stuff in the throat.

Short stroked Iosso on a patch wrapped around a worn bronze brush - 3 patches 10 strokes each patch.
Patched out the Iosso with BoreTech and dry patches.

Checked with borescope - very clean throat.

My same findings. I used Flitz but same.

 

[Martin52]

I'm still curious what is "worse" on a barrel....50 brush strokes every cleaning or a couple strokes of IOSSO..or whatever abrasive you like to us.

Same thought here. For years I limited brushing (bronze) to 10-15 passes after each match, used reputable solvents for carbon and copper. The 2000 round barrel I just cleaned had deep black streaks in the grooves, little if any copper. Took 2 sets of 50 one way passes with Permatex on a bronze brush with a soak in between, a scrub with Permatex on a blue Iosso brush and there's still some left. In recent times I have cleaned straight after a match to try and get the stuff out before it hardens and that helps, as has Iosso and JB. Getting one new barrel soon so trying to get it right with this older barrel.

 

[urbanrifleman]

This is the best cleaning thread I've seen. More REAL cleaning results than any thread so far.

People talk talk talk about ruining barrels.

This is the first thread where people have admitted their cleaning didn't work and then tried more aggressive methods that actually worked.

 

[jelenko]

Completely agree.
Mixed into these cleaning threads are some apples and oranges.
I'm thinking specifically about using CLR. Clearly it cleaned Erik's brake. And, as I've tested, it will get a bunch, maybe all, of the 'loose' carbon/soot. So, yeah, the patches come out black. But, that's not addressing the hard carbon in the throat.

 

[Mauser06]

Me being new to this stuff....lead lead my problems...and coincidently, my results.

I'm not new to guns or shooting or handloading. But new to precision and high volume. Except gas guns and hand guns...my rifles have been hunters up till now.


Within about 50rds it just fell apart. I chased my tail. Tore my rifle apart several times. Tried different glass and mounts. Sold my stock and got a chassis thinking I just couldn't shoot that stock. Tried different powder and bullets and all sorts of combinations. I own dang near every popular cleaning product now and was confident it was clean.

Heck, it often looked clean after I got my bore scope.

Something caught my eye one day and I realized that wasn't the same color. My old Dewey road had a brass end and despite using new non reactive jags, I'd still get some blue patches so I didn't realize I had copper. Stripped that copper to find carbon. Huh.

Thats when I tried soaking...because patches and chemicals and some brushing simply wasn't doing much. We're talking 24hr barrel full of chemical soaks.


I learned a lot. The bore scope was by far the best thing I bought thus far.


I agree...scrubbing at stuff just because it is there probably isn't the way to go. But knowing what to scrub at probably is. And when to scrub at it. That's still my unknown. I have a club match Thursday and I'm going to see how it groups afterwards. Ran 12 through it today just to foul it up...ran some Elimnator to remove the loose junk so when I get to the range Thursday I can start sending sighters and verify my data.


We have to remember there are a lot of different shooters here. Everything from guys that clean between relays to guys that might have to go well over 100rds without cleaning at all.

I think barrels and loads and powders and bullets can all be different and create more fouling issues than others.


Tons of variables. I know I'm not going to let that stuff build up like that again. Another thing I noticed AFTER I got it back to clean steel was my cleaning rod actually spins as it goes down the bore from the start. My throat was so clogged it didn't spin for 4 or 5 inches. Couldn't see the rifling. I didn't know better and thought that was how throats looked through a bore scope.

 

[BoydAllen]

Same thought here. For years I limited brushing (bronze) to 10-15 passes after each match, used reputable solvents for carbon and copper. The 2000 round barrel I just cleaned had deep black streaks in the grooves, little if any copper. Took 2 sets of 50 one way passes with Permatex on a bronze brush with a soak in between, a scrub with Permatex on a blue Iosso brush and there's still some left. In recent times I have cleaned straight after a match to try and get the stuff out before it hardens and that helps, as has Iosso and JB. Getting one new barrel soon so trying to get it right with this older barrel.

What Permatex product are you using?

 

[Martin52]

I am using Permatex Super Penetrant, here are the details:

Permatex® Fast Break® Super Penetrant

Heavy-duty penetrate for rusted and frozen assemblies. Works quickly to penetrate and loosen rust, tar, grease, dirt, carbon deposits and corrosion from metal parts. Frees frozen nuts, bolts and fittings in all types of assemblies. Level 3*

www.permatex.com

 

[Straightshooter1]

I am using Permatex Super Penetrant, here are the details:

Permatex® Fast Break® Super Penetrant

Heavy-duty penetrate for rusted and frozen assemblies. Works quickly to penetrate and loosen rust, tar, grease, dirt, carbon deposits and corrosion from metal parts. Frees frozen nuts, bolts and fittings in all types of assemblies. Level 3*

www.permatex.com

What's the difference between this and WD-40?