Should “fit like a rat turd in a shoe box”.
Always wondered if that was an exaggeration ??
Lou Murdica's process
- Thread starter marchx
- Start date
Always wondered if that was an exaggeration ??
“Bolt close like factory” is also a good description.
Infrequent Shooter
Gold $$ Contributor
I am going to use 'like a rat turd in a shoe box' as soon as I possibly can in a conversation.
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
Lou anneals every firing from the videos I saw. That might explain why he can push back so little.
Good point.
I think a old Tech at Sierra started that with “ like a rat turd in a Violin case”.
memilanuk
Gold $$ Contributor
I seem to remember hearing that phrase way back when on the old Florida High Power forums on Delphi (back when that was still a 'thing').
I heard about it, but I never got into it. I didn’t have the tools to make a precise, repeatable measurement
Mark W
Gold $$ Contributor
The Indian still needs a straight arrow…..
dcali
Bullet Maker
Context is important. Loading for benchrest, or even F class is different than for a varmint rifle. Loading for short range is different from long range. 2-3 shot groups will tell you almost nothing for a factory rifle shooting without wind flags. They can tell you a great deal shooting a good competition rifle with dead calm and the benchrest style wind flags to prove it. My F class rifle will shoot well under a 1/4 minute ALL DAY under those conditions. People freak out when you say that, but keep in mind I'm that I'm talking about ideal conditions that I choose, not competition conditions that I don't have control over. I'm so picky about load development that i just don't do it if the weather isn't perfect and I have flags.
My process for anything other than benchrest/f class: Don't. Just load and go. It's a waste of time and money.
As for Lou's process, he knows what he's doing better than most (including me), but see above on context (and go read Boyd's post early in this thread if you skipped it).
The only thing I would add to this process is that at long range with an accurate rifle, doing a proper ladder test (velocity vs impact) can provide a lot of guidance and certainty as to what velocity range to target. It may not save any ammo (it will probably consume some), but I find it worth it because you get a lot of information that will be useful later if you need to tweak loads.
This is just me, but sometimes I like to overdo load development just to observe the patterns that come out of it. It's a worthwhile experience to systematically go through a wide range of combinations to see how they interact. It's that kind of base knowledge that helps give me the confidence to know when you can skip steps and when you can't.
People have been talking a lot about statistical certainty lately. The reason there is so much disagreement on this, is that some are assuming no knowledge of trends or previous efforts, while others are standing on the shoulders of giants and fine tuning. The latter seem like wizards, but it's really just experience. If you build a good foundation of the principles of load development and a working knowledge of the setup you want to shoot, you can develop a good load very quickly.
My process for anything other than benchrest/f class: Don't. Just load and go. It's a waste of time and money.
As for Lou's process, he knows what he's doing better than most (including me), but see above on context (and go read Boyd's post early in this thread if you skipped it).
The only thing I would add to this process is that at long range with an accurate rifle, doing a proper ladder test (velocity vs impact) can provide a lot of guidance and certainty as to what velocity range to target. It may not save any ammo (it will probably consume some), but I find it worth it because you get a lot of information that will be useful later if you need to tweak loads.
This is just me, but sometimes I like to overdo load development just to observe the patterns that come out of it. It's a worthwhile experience to systematically go through a wide range of combinations to see how they interact. It's that kind of base knowledge that helps give me the confidence to know when you can skip steps and when you can't.
People have been talking a lot about statistical certainty lately. The reason there is so much disagreement on this, is that some are assuming no knowledge of trends or previous efforts, while others are standing on the shoulders of giants and fine tuning. The latter seem like wizards, but it's really just experience. If you build a good foundation of the principles of load development and a working knowledge of the setup you want to shoot, you can develop a good load very quickly.
dcali
Bullet Maker
Indeed. The difference between shooters is much less than the difference between their rifles in my experience.
JEFFPPC
Gold $$ Contributor
The right Indian will show up with a straight arrow. I love shooters who make it all about the arrow.Easy.
Mark W
Gold $$ Contributor
I think it’s a strong combination of both. Financially I’m capable of buying top flight rifle from the best of gunsmith’s, but I lack the tuning, gun handling, and wind reading skills to be a top shooter.
Shooter13
Gold $$ Contributor
I think this is so important! people will ask about loading information and never state if they are shooting custom or factory actions, what discipline they shoot. Many get confused with jam, touch, into the lands and so forth. More information is (most of the time) never a bad thing.
Question for the guru's...I size my shoulder back .0015...That said, I anneal every time, and check base to datum every 5th-8th case....I read that if the measurements that are taken off of a fired case is accurate, then .001 would be enough shoulder "bump". Now, I shoot in club competitions, and so far, have never experienced a tight bolt close on a round. But I am curious as to the top shooters here opinions on this...Thanks for any input....rsbhunter
Bronsin
Silver $$ Contributor
I'm not a top shooter in any sense of the word, but I had to use 5 different FL dies to find the one's that worked for both of my 6PPC's. Both rifles actually have the same headspace, but the brass from 1 rifle won't even allow the bolt to start closing on the other. The difference is one is .001 bigger at the base than the other rifle. Headspace and shoulder diameter are exactly the same.
Just because the bump is set doesn't mean it's sized correctly. Headspace is only 1 of 3 dimensions that need properly sized. The dies that worked are the JLC die and a Harrell's "0" for anyone that is wondering.
Sizing @ the 200 line is just as important as any measurement when it comes to easy chambering the round.
I defer to Lou's expertise but many have annealed and benefitted. Ask Erik Cortina. I use a Fluxeion induction annealer with water cooled coil. I am meticulous in brass preparation and pay attention to force required to seat bullets. I also use Neolube 2 in the necks...
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