6 Dasher Problems - Help Please>> UPDATE

[BradY]

Re: 6 Dasher Problems - Help Please

A quick experiment to do would be fire some groups and separate the cases that produced fliers. Then reload them vs the ones that produced good shots. IF you find that good cases are still producing fliers, then you can eliminate brass prep. If not, well then you can follow it from there.

Then I would go and make sure the barrel is clean- no carbon rings or buildup in the throat.

Then I would be upping and downing the charge weight 0.3gr either side.

Failing that, change bullets. Maybe there is something about those hybrids just your barrel just doesnt quite like.

Apparently there is also another node in the dasher up around the 33.5gr area. If you worked up slowly you might find that node to shoot better as well.

 

[savagedasher]

Re: 6 Dasher Problems - Help Please

Primer seating very easy can cause the problem that never entered my mind I always dead seat mine Larry

 

[ShootDots]

Re: 6 Dasher Problems - Help Please

22BRGUY... No Sir, they are firmly "planted" against the bottom of the primer picket. The primers seat just like "normal" 6mmBR brass does. As a matter of fact, the brass I use for load development testing IS the brass from my 6mmBR I just had turned into the Dasher. They have about 6 firings on them now (2 from the Dasher) and were freshly annealed just prior to testing. They have 1 firing on the anneal job.

 

[spclark]

Re: 6 Dasher Problems - Help Please

Then if you have access to some RL15, by all means try that first. That may be all you need to do.

 

[ShootDots]

Re: 6 Dasher Problems - Help Please

BY1983, I was thinking of doing just that.. BUT it is on EVERY 5 shot group, and totally random. I think if it was the brass, there would not be so many.. I could understand if say 1 flyer out of say 50 shots, then brass may very well be the culprit. BUT, one and sometimes 2 in EVERY group, leads me to believe it is not brass. Also this barrel is perfect on the inside (Hawkeye BoreScoped by my 'smith) no hard carbon anywhere..

 

[ridgeway]

Re: 6 Dasher Problems - Help Please

Run some R-15 out it and report back. Start at 32.5 and work up to 33.5 or so. I settled on 33.2 with Hybrids out of a Brux.

 

[ShootDots]

Re: 6 Dasher Problems - Help Please

That is my next step on the next outing to the range... RL-15 is now going to be front and center.. Oh and by the way Ridgeway, my 6 x 47 is a Brux and it needs LOTS of H4350... Maybe my Krieger needs to be pushed too! It is certainly worth the try..

 

[Dave L Kiff]

Re: 6 MM Dasher Problems and one of the resones ( please share )

Story : A customer called one day and told me he had a well known gunsmith chamber two barrels with the same 6mm Dasher .2704 NK and a .104 freebore . He and his son loaded .105 Hybrids very precisely . One rifle shot fantastic , great accuracy and velocity right on par touching the lands . The other shot poorly with pressure and flyers , very unpredictable . It also had a shiny rub mark on top of the unfired loaded round when cycled and ejected where the other rifle did not mark or rub the projectile . He and I wondered how could this be , I had folks call me and tell me they had the same problem . They were frustrated to the point they swore the reamer was undersized on the throat diameter . I would have folks send in there reamers to check them to find every thing was OK and to print . Well I had Brian plug cast and check the size on the barrel , to my skeptical surprise the barrel that shot lights out at 600 with a .104 fb had a .2434 groove with a .2366 bore . Now the barrel made by the same company , reamed with the same reamer that shot poorly had a .2429 groove and a .2365 bore . Now here is what has been causing a terrible debate for a long time . The question asked by many shooters is why do some folks have great success with the old fashion .104 freebore designed for older Berger's and .107 Sierras and 105 Hornady bullets and some have to purchase throaters or Dasher finishers with .123 to .130 freebore or more . Well here is the real scoop . If a groove is .2429 and you have a bullet that measures .2434 and a reamer @ .2437 you will have a solid band running down the 1-30 lead angle that resembles a bullet mold for about .018 to .023 depending on the reamer angle tolerance . Now if your lucky and have that rifle with the larger groove like Brian's second rifle . Well your out kicking *** on the range with a .104 freebore not even knowing what the hell the guy on the forum is complaining about and shouting he needs a .130 freebore and has to jump the same bullet .030 to get it to perform . Well guess what , Brian ordered a .2436 throater and lengthen his sons throat out .035 and now the tight grooved barrel shoots very close to his .104 touching and both are using the same loaded ammo . Now you all know where the shiny rub mark came from and why its hard to predict what freebore will work and how to determine OAL on Hybrids . Jack Balon sent in some 105 Hybrids that he could not use , I measured them and to my surprise I had to eat crow . You see I had told every one that I had never seen a Berger that measured over .2434 and to my surprise they measured .2439 . Now try swaging those puppy's down a .2429 groove and not have any pressures . You see that's where the .160 freebore comes in . Please don't think one of those sloppy brand X reamers will do the trick at .2445 . You see its not the O.D. cut of the freebore ,its the solid non interrupted portion of the lead angle that causes the problem . That's why a long jump with a maturing pressure helps gradually swage the bullet parallel into the lands and grooves . Well getting late , time to go home . Hope this helps in determining freebore length and understanding that you may have a rifle that is not performing , with bad pressure and all you need to do is push the freebore forward or you may have a rifle that use to kick butt with the older bullets but you put it aside because the keyboard jockeys said it just would not work. My .02 cents . Thank Dave

 

[WyleWD]

Re: 6 Dasher Problems - Help Please

Are you sure it isn't scope parallax? How carefully have you double checked the crown's condition lately? WD

 

[ShootDots]

Re: 6 Dasher Problems - Help Please

Hey Dave>>>Thanks for all that write up information! I understand what is being said. However, I do NOT know what the inner dimensions of my barrel are. I did measure several of my Hybrids and they were 0.2430 to 0.2435... I called Omar after I read your message and he stated that he ordered that reamer from you for a friend of his and he was going to shoot 105 Hybrids when he could get his hands on them. So I do not know all the "specifics" of the reamer, only what Omar told me. I am going to give RL-15 a good shot at it>>>if that does not work, I am going to switch to Berger 108's.. I have a dozen or so boxes of Hybrids and would hope they will work. If not, I will look for a trade to someone who wants to give them a shot. One way or the other, I WILL make this Dasher do what I want it to!! Thanks Again Dave, it is much appreciated!

 

[ShootDots]

Re: 6 Dasher Problems - Help Please

Hey Wyle, it is not the scope or the parallax. It is a NightForce BR (new) 12-42 w/ NP-2DD. The scope topped by 6mmBR prior to the Dasher>>>it was perfect just 2 weeks ago and it has not been damaged in any way. I always am checking the parallax to make sure there is none, prior to shooting. The barrel has less than 250 rounds thru it and my riflesmith is very particular about his work, especially the crowns. He seems to be always checking them...

 

[dkhunt14]

Re: 6 Dasher Problems - Help Please

Almost everybody at Williamsport is running Varget and CCI BR4 primers. Everybody i know that played with the 450's or R-15 didn't get as good of results. My new Dasher doesn't like the 105 Hybrid but loves the 105 VLD. We use a .155 freebore in our Dashers. Most people are shooting 34 grains of Varget in a Broughton or around 33 grains in a Krieger. The velocity is usually in the 3000 to 3050 range.

 

[tclaunch]

Re: 6 Dasher Problems - Help Please

Before I did anything, I`d try .001" tighter bushing.

 

[22BRGUY]

Re: 6 Dasher Problems - Help Please

Wondering about bedding....Is it pillared and glassed and how many inch pounds on the front and rear bedding screws. Is the tang well bedded and is the recoil lug solid against bedding. Also as Wyle mentioned, it could be a parallax thing maybe and always keeping eye centered to scope. Just trying to help here Dots and look at easiest things first.
Best Wishes again.

 

[40X Guy]

Re: 6 Dasher Problems - Help Please

I agree with tclaunch about trying a different neck tension. Plus have the Berger 105H's been sorted by bearing surface? The newer the lot in my experience the worse their bearing surface measurements. A bearing surface measurment out of the normal by .005 or worse will cause a flyer. I tried Varget in my first Dasher and could never get it to work. RL-15 was somewhat better but still not there. Ended up using H4895 and I have never looked back. My newest Dasher just finished this spring also loves the H4895. One rifle uses 32.6, the newest is 32.5 grains. If I go up to 32.6 in new gun, groups open up big time and thats only 5-6 kernals of powder! In my limited experience shooting Dashers for 2 years they do like their nodes. Once found they can make you smile..

Frank

 

[ShootDots]

Re: 6 Dasher Problems - Help Please

Thanks Guys for all your help! I appreciate it very much... I believe I have some good places to start... Thanks again!!

 

[SDDasher]

Re: 6 Dasher Problems - Help Please

I agree with tclaunch about trying a different neck tension. Plus have the Berger 105H's been sorted by bearing surface? The newer the lot in my experience the worse their bearing surface measurements. A bearing surface measurment out of the normal by .005 or worse will cause a flyer. I tried Varget in my first Dasher and could never get it to work. RL-15 was somewhat better but still not there. Ended up using H4895 and I have never looked back. My newest Dasher just finished this spring also loves the H4895. One rifle uses 32.6, the newest is 32.5 grains. If I go up to 32.6 in new gun, groups open up big time and thats only 5-6 kernals of powder! In my limited experience shooting Dashers for 2 years they do like their nodes. Once found they can make you smile..

Frank

++1 on the H4895. Frank's loads are very near to mine in my Dasher. Some great suggestions on this thread and info from Mr. Kiff. Good luck Ben with the Dasher. Once you get'er shootin you will love that cartridge.

 

[ShootDots]

Re: 6 Dasher Problems - Help Please

6mmBrMR, Oh you can bet on 2 things: 1.) I WILL get this right and 2.) I will LOVE the little bugger! I loved and still love my 6mmBR that I turned into this Dasher!! Thanks Again Guys for ALL the help! It is much appreciated!!

 

[basshusker]

Re: 6 Dasher Problems - Help Please

+1 on the suggestion to separate out the brass of the fliers and retry, I have had to problems in .223 Lapua Match once from different lots of brass where I through them all together for prep and paid for it chasing problems later. Once I got most of them separated I stuck with just validated cases. Only time I ever had an issues with Lapua brass and really it is on my for mixing lots, even if it is Lapua brass. Luckily they were mostly weight sortable.
Justin

 

[ShootDots]

Re: 6 Dasher Problems - Help Please

Well guys, Dave Kiff wrote what maybe construed as an "article" on this topic. He basically stated that I either run a throater in an additional 30K for a L-O-N-G jump with the Hybrids due to my VERY tight bore, or I run some Boattails. I went out today, and flying by the seat of my pants, I loaded up 20 rounds, 10 with Varget and 10 with RL-15. I was using the straight Berger 105 Boattail seated 15K off the lands. Well I got 2 groups with the Varget at 0.780 and 1.120>>>with the RL-15, I got 1.45 (first group running over the Varget, and then a 0.658" group. NONE of these groups had flyers! These groups were shot at 300 yards. I ran out of the 105Berger B/Tails BUT Omar Alonzo, my gunsmith, had some 108 Berger Boattails. I JUST finished loading up from 31.3grs to 32.1grs of Varget (which I have 12 pounds of) and CCI 450's... I seated them 10K off the lands. I am QUITE certain that Dave Kiff was right on the money! Thank You Dave! AND I really do appreciate all the other input>>> you guys make this the BEST forum in the country!! Thanks to everyone!!