Lou Murdica's process

[Bill Clifton]

I see you’re kind of in a argument here with Jimmy Mac but your analysis couldn’t be farther from the truth.

In short range you have to keep the gun tuned, read conditions down to a knats-ass, and have great gun-handling. Most of all it comes down to how well you read the conditions.

Im in Kentucky you’re welcome come on over and shoot at my place. You can shoot my Benchrest rifles and see what I’m talking about. It’s not as easy as it seems putting 5 or 10 shots through the same hole.

Once, I talked a long range buddy into shooting a match. I gave him my rifle that won a yardage and a grand at the Nationals about two weeks prior. Helped him load his ammo (the rifle was tuned and shot like a laser). Durning the match He could barely get two bullets to touch at 100 yards. His words were, “How can it be that hard! I can see the target! It’s right there!”


Bart

Heck if he doesn't want to pick me. LOL I'm in Kentucky and would love to learn some tips from a pro.

 

[Iowa Fox]

What I want to know is he says he uses moly inside the necks.

What kind?
How does he apply it?

Currently I use the Redding BB's with dry moly. You can't go wrong following the winners.

 

[Joe Salt]

Iowa Fox keep doing what your doing, put the moly in the necks, if nothing else your seating depth will be the same on all your rounds.

Joe Salt

 

[marchx]

What I want to know is he says he uses moly inside the necks.

What kind?
How does he apply it?

Currently I use the Redding BB's with dry moly. You can't go wrong following the winners.

Bryan Zolnikov did some testing and in order to achieve best results it's good to anneal&moly.

 

[Dthomas3523]

This is not how PRS shooters tune a load.

It’s definitely how some do it. PRS has a very low bar on acceptable ammo.

For example, I listed out powder charges and assigned numbers. I then listed out jump distances and assigned numbers.

I had a member do two random number generators to randomly pick the load for my 6gt.

Loaded, chrono’d, trued and shot two single day “trophy matches.”

There was a total of 190 shots. I dropped 9pts. Including hitting all of the .5moa on 400 and 600yd kyl racks. The 9 misses were absolutely not the ammo.

As long as you drop consistent powder charges and seat consistently, ammo isn’t a problem for PRS.


This would not work in F or BR obviously.

 

[JFrank]

The assumption that AMP brings brass back to itss almost virgin state is based on expert witnesses testimonies ("it does a great job for me" "it helped me in accuracy department"). I have not seen a compelling evidence that AMP has helped in significantly reducing neck tension variation. I think AMP helps prolong life of our cases but I would be hesitant to take AMP-annealed 10 times fired brass to a major competition. I would rather take 2 times fired not annealed brass.

Take your best tuned brass that you can rely on to shoot exactly the same regardless of age.

 

[Infrequent Shooter]

I came across this article

Top Benchrest Shooter Lou Murdica Talks With LoadDevelopment.com - LoadDevelopment.com

To get to the real world truth about precision rifle reloading, we talk with pro shooter Lou Murdica.

www.loaddevelopment.com

I find it very informative. What does he mean "Don’t over size your brass."?
What do you think about his load development process:

1. I work up my load using a powder that fills the case.
2. I start with bullet making almost a square mark from the lands of the barrel
3. Then I load the powder on the light side and shoot 2 shot groups working up in powder 1/2 grain at a time until I start to see pressure signs.
4. Then I look at the 2 shoot groups and shoot 3 shot groups of the loads that look good.
5. Then I shoot 5 shot groups again from those that look good.
6. I take the best group and then back off the lands .003 at a time and see if it can improve groups."

I don't quite understand why he is doing no. 4&5 with a bullet in the lands. Isn't that too risky? Why doesn't he start at at least t thau off?
I cannot seat bullets to exactly the same length I always have 1-2 thau variation. If I seat the bullets 0-5 thau off the lands does this 2 thau variation in CBTO has bigger impact on velocity (pressure differences) than if I seated my bullets 10-20 thau off the lands?
I am looking at 100m-300m accuracy.

There is an Eric Cortina video where he asks several top shooters about FL sizing. It begins w Speedy in the first frames. All reply yes to FL sizing. Lou Murdica's answer ended with 'two 1000ths is, or should be enough', paraphrasing a bit. Someone pls explain to this new reloader.

 

[Field_2_Fork]

There is an Eric Cortina video where he asks several top shooters about FL sizing. It begins w Speedy in the first frames. All reply yes to FL sizing. Lou Murdica's answer ended with 'two 1000ths is, or should be enough', paraphrasing a bit. Someone pls explain to this new reloader.

.002" (two thousandths of an inch) is a common amount to push the shoulder of the case back when full length sizing bottleneck rifle cartridges. This should be done after the second (or third) firing of the case, it may take a firing or two to get the brass to fully grow/stretch to the chamber of the rifle.

There was a time where people were mainly neck sizing, and only full length sizing when the brass wouldn't chamber in the gun anymore - for the most part the consensus now is back to full length sizing every firing. This leads to some debate about which is better, hence Erik asking people in the pits.

Measuring the brass in this area is done using a comparator tool of some type (Hornady is common) and set of calipers.

 

[Infrequent Shooter]

.002" (two thousandths of an inch) is a common amount to push the shoulder of the case back when full length sizing bottleneck rifle cartridges. This should be done after the second (or third) firing of the case, it may take a firing or two to get the brass to fully grow/stretch to the chamber of the rifle.

There was a time where people were mainly neck sizing, and only full length sizing when the brass wouldn't chamber in the gun anymore - for the most part the consensus now is back to full length sizing every firing. This leads to some debate about which is better, hence Erik asking people in the pits.

Measuring the brass in this area is done using a comparator tool of some type (Hornady is common) and set of calipers

thank you! this learning process for me is 2 forward and 1 back, but slowly learning.

 

[JEFFPPC]

Lots of things in this thread and in the OPs process that my process is based on. I believe there is more ways than one to skin a cat. But very important in my mind is the word PROCESS. Developed a process that gives you good results and follow it. Don't let yourself get sidetracked. As you gain experience with your process you will learn what to tweak. Jumping around with every new unproven theory that is voiced will leave you a cat chasing it's tail.

 

[Field_2_Fork]

thank you! this learning process for me is 2 forward and 1 back, but slowly learning.

Me as well, I've only been reloading for about 6 or 7 years, for hunting. The past few years I've been getting into the precision aspect of it as I'm getting into benchrest now. There is a wealth of information here, also some good stuff on YouTube.

 

[Bill K]

#4 & 5 are common practice I believe, as many accurate loads work very well, with just a slight touch on the lands.
But, as he did, back off some and make a test with various loads backing off, as he does.

 

[Webster]

Thank you guys. I don't own a tunnel and I cannot bring my reloading stuff to the range. What do you think about a method which popular on snipershide?
You work up a load to a certain velocity and just play with a seating depth for accuracy? It seems to simple to be true...

That assumes best accuracy always occurs at a certain velocity. The best competitive short range bench rest shooters may not buy into that theory, they do tend to shoot hot loads. . Having said that most top BR shooters know what powder, charge and bullets the other top shooters use for a given cartridge. I am a varmint hunter. I shoot a particular bullet almost always 0.010" jump for starters, shoot .3 gr increasing charges and just look for the smallest group. I don't care what the fps is. If it doesn't group I assume that's the best that bullet can do. My rifles always shoot just about any combination under 0.500". I never saw any obvious difference in seating depth vs accuracy. It either shoots small or it doesn't. There is a big difference in how different bullets perform in a given barrel. Does anyone on SniperHide shoot in National Competition? Every one has their own opinion. To much noise on internet. Try to listen only to the best competitive shooters. Good videos by the best on YouTUBE. When you have a rifle and ability to always shoot low 2s or 1s, you may do it differently. Read Tony Boyers book. He is by far the best SR shooter that ever lived. Some people say he is the best because he can read the wind better than anyone. It helps to have about 20 barrels and you can save the best for the nationals.

 

[marchx]

@Webster thank you for resurrecting this thread. I almost forgot I started this. I agree with everything you said. As for Tony Boyer's book I went last year to Tony's website and unfortunately they ship only within US.

 

[Webster]

@Webster thank you for resurrecting this thread. I almost forgot I started this. I agree with everything you said. As for Tony Boyer's book I went last year to Tony's website and unfortunately they ship only within US.

I did it again, responded to an old post.

 

[dbduff]

I build and tune everything from Benchrest to sporter hunting rifles and heavy ELR rifles. Theres a lot of differences between the different types of rifles. They do not all respond to similar tunes. While some bullets and powders shoot best in the lands, others will not for example. We do sometimes get a bit short sighted in the tuning world, Br cartridges do act quite a bit differently than your standard round. I am only posting this to encourage people to explore things that are not "common" loading techniques. We have learned a bunch from newer shooters doing just that.

As well as the shortage of components forcing trial and error with other powders deemed less than superlative.

 

[Evan]

.002" (two thousandths of an inch) is a common amount to push the shoulder of the case back when full length sizing bottleneck rifle cartridges. This should be done after the second (or third) firing of the case, it may take a firing or two to get the brass to fully grow/stretch to the chamber of the rifle.

There was a time where people were mainly neck sizing, and only full length sizing when the brass wouldn't chamber in the gun anymore - for the most part the consensus now is back to full length sizing every firing. This leads to some debate about which is better, hence Erik asking people in the pits.

Measuring the brass in this area is done using a comparator tool of some type (Hornady is common) and set of calipers.

The best way is to actually size and test your brass in the rifle with a bare bolt (no firing pin assembly or ejector) and not just blindly bump the shoulder 0.002” after x number of reloads. Size the brass just enough that the bolt closes with no drag and you know you’re sizing it the right amount. Took me way too many years to finally get over my own stubborn insistence that it was too much hassle to strip a bolt and to start adjusting my sizing for where it mattered - in the chamber it was going to be fired in. Since then, brass magically lasts much longer than it used to.

Not so coincidentally, most people find that 0.002” is the difference between a tight fit and just right, but you’re going in blind if you insist on only using your calipers and not the rifle to try and establish your sizing.

 

[Field_2_Fork]

The best way is to actually size and test your brass in the rifle with a bare bolt (no firing pin assembly or ejector) and not just blindly bump the shoulder 0.002” after x number of reloads. Size the brass just enough that the bolt closes with no drag and you know you’re sizing it the right amount. Took me way too many years to finally get over my own stubborn insistence that it was too much hassle to strip a bolt and to start adjusting my sizing for where it mattered - in the chamber it was going to be fired in. Since then, brass magically lasts much longer than it used to.

Not so coincidentally, most people find that 0.002” is the difference between a tight fit and just right, but you’re going in blind if you insist on only using your calipers and not the rifle to try and establish your sizing.

I'm aware, thanks.

 

[Evan]

I'm aware, thanks.

I apologize if it read as though I were suggesting you didn’t. I wanted to leave a more detailed description for “bump the shoulder 0.002” to include the goal of sizing a case only until a stripped bolt closes on it without any drag. Your post was the easiest to relate the comment to for context, since we’ve drifted from the original thread topic.

 

[Field_2_Fork]

I apologize if it read as though I were suggesting you didn’t. I wanted to leave a more detailed description for “bump the shoulder 0.002” to include the goal of sizing a case only until a stripped bolt closes on it without any drag. Your post was the easiest to relate the comment to for context, since we’ve drifted from the original thread topic.

All good. My reply probably came off harsher than intended.