Lou Murdica's process

[Darwin]

There is an Eric Cortina video where he asks several top shooters about FL sizing. It begins w Speedy in the first frames. All reply yes to FL sizing. Lou Murdica's answer ended with 'two 1000ths is, or should be enough', paraphrasing a bit. Someone pls explain to this new reloader.

.002 is on the tight side. .003-.004 is good. Easier running bolt is one benefit. Records and wins by those that say “loose shoots good” are common.

 

[Rat Rifle]

.002 is on the tight side. .003-.004 is good. Easier running bolt is one benefit. Records and wins by those that say “loose shoots good” are common.

Should “fit like a rat turd in a shoe box”.

Always wondered if that was an exaggeration ??

 

[Darwin]

Should “fit like a rat turd in a shoe box”.

Always wondered if that was an exaggeration ??

“Bolt close like factory” is also a good description.

 

[Infrequent Shooter]

Should “fit like a rat turd in a shoe box”.

Always wondered if that was an exaggeration ??

I am going to use 'like a rat turd in a shoe box' as soon as I possibly can in a conversation.

 

[urbanrifleman]

.002 is on the tight side. .003-.004 is good. Easier running bolt is one benefit. Records and wins by those that say “loose shoots good” are common.

Lou anneals every firing from the videos I saw. That might explain why he can push back so little.

 

[JFrank]

Should “fit like a rat turd in a shoe box”.

Always wondered if that was an exaggeration ??

Yeah that may be a stretch, I’ve used the term “chamber freely” it seems to translate fairly well.

 

[Darwin]

Good point.

Lou anneals every firing from the videos I saw. That might explain why he can push back so little.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

I am going to use 'like a rat turd in a shoe box' as soon as I possibly can in a conversation.

I think a old Tech at Sierra started that with “ like a rat turd in a Violin case”.

 

[memilanuk]

I think a old Tech at Sierra started that with “ like a rat turd in a Violin case”.

I seem to remember hearing that phrase way back when on the old Florida High Power forums on Delphi (back when that was still a 'thing').

 

[Rat Rifle]

I seem to remember hearing that phrase way back when on the old Florida High Power forums on Delphi (back when that was still a 'thing').

I heard about it, but I never got into it. I didn’t have the tools to make a precise, repeatable measurement

 

[JEFFPPC]

After 6 pages never forget....It's the Indian not the arrow.

 

[Mark W]

After 6 pages never forget....It's the Indian not the arrow.

The Indian still needs a straight arrow…..

 

[dcali]

Context is important. Loading for benchrest, or even F class is different than for a varmint rifle. Loading for short range is different from long range. 2-3 shot groups will tell you almost nothing for a factory rifle shooting without wind flags. They can tell you a great deal shooting a good competition rifle with dead calm and the benchrest style wind flags to prove it. My F class rifle will shoot well under a 1/4 minute ALL DAY under those conditions. People freak out when you say that, but keep in mind I'm that I'm talking about ideal conditions that I choose, not competition conditions that I don't have control over. I'm so picky about load development that i just don't do it if the weather isn't perfect and I have flags.

My process for anything other than benchrest/f class: Don't. Just load and go. It's a waste of time and money.

As for Lou's process, he knows what he's doing better than most (including me), but see above on context (and go read Boyd's post early in this thread if you skipped it).

The only thing I would add to this process is that at long range with an accurate rifle, doing a proper ladder test (velocity vs impact) can provide a lot of guidance and certainty as to what velocity range to target. It may not save any ammo (it will probably consume some), but I find it worth it because you get a lot of information that will be useful later if you need to tweak loads.

This is just me, but sometimes I like to overdo load development just to observe the patterns that come out of it. It's a worthwhile experience to systematically go through a wide range of combinations to see how they interact. It's that kind of base knowledge that helps give me the confidence to know when you can skip steps and when you can't.

People have been talking a lot about statistical certainty lately. The reason there is so much disagreement on this, is that some are assuming no knowledge of trends or previous efforts, while others are standing on the shoulders of giants and fine tuning. The latter seem like wizards, but it's really just experience. If you build a good foundation of the principles of load development and a working knowledge of the setup you want to shoot, you can develop a good load very quickly.

 

[dcali]

The Indian still needs a straight arrow…..

Indeed. The difference between shooters is much less than the difference between their rifles in my experience.

 

[JEFFPPC]

The Indian still needs a straight arrow…..

The right Indian will show up with a straight arrow. I love shooters who make it all about the arrow.Easy.

 

[Mark W]

Indeed. The difference between shooters is much less than the difference between their rifles in my experience.

I think it’s a strong combination of both. Financially I’m capable of buying top flight rifle from the best of gunsmith’s, but I lack the tuning, gun handling, and wind reading skills to be a top shooter.

 

[Shooter13]

Context is important. Loading for benchrest, or even F class is different than for a varmint rifle. Loading for short range is different from long range. 2-3 shot groups will tell you almost nothing for a factory rifle shooting without wind flags

I think this is so important! people will ask about loading information and never state if they are shooting custom or factory actions, what discipline they shoot. Many get confused with jam, touch, into the lands and so forth. More information is (most of the time) never a bad thing.

 

[rsbhunter]

Question for the guru's...I size my shoulder back .0015...That said, I anneal every time, and check base to datum every 5th-8th case....I read that if the measurements that are taken off of a fired case is accurate, then .001 would be enough shoulder "bump". Now, I shoot in club competitions, and so far, have never experienced a tight bolt close on a round. But I am curious as to the top shooters here opinions on this...Thanks for any input....rsbhunter

 

[BoydAllen]

I have spoken with and interviewed a lot of top shooters over the years, and invariably they all do their own testing for everything. I suggest that to everyone. Test for yourself and believe your targets. Loading at the range really facilitates testing.

 

[Bronsin]

Question for the guru's...I size my shoulder back .0015...That said, I anneal every time, and check base to datum every 5th-8th case....I read that if the measurements that are taken off of a fired case is accurate, then .001 would be enough shoulder "bump". Now, I shoot in club competitions, and so far, have never experienced a tight bolt close on a round. But I am curious as to the top shooters here opinions on this...Thanks for any input....rsbhunter

I'm not a top shooter in any sense of the word, but I had to use 5 different FL dies to find the one's that worked for both of my 6PPC's. Both rifles actually have the same headspace, but the brass from 1 rifle won't even allow the bolt to start closing on the other. The difference is one is .001 bigger at the base than the other rifle. Headspace and shoulder diameter are exactly the same.

Just because the bump is set doesn't mean it's sized correctly. Headspace is only 1 of 3 dimensions that need properly sized. The dies that worked are the JLC die and a Harrell's "0" for anyone that is wondering.