Long range load development at 100 yards.

[scalian]

Just pulled the barrel off my savage action with a 1 lbs trigger and put it on a shilen action with a 2-6oz trigger and its taking some getting used to. Possible i pulled the low shot at 29.1

I used a Hornady tool to find the lands at 1.800 and loaded at 1.815 when you say change seating depth would you work to like 1.815, 1.812, 1.809, 1.806, 1.803 1.800 1.797, 1.794?

I'm shooting 105 Berger match VLD

 

[Steve Blair]

I would start at 1.815 and seat deeper .003" per group. I had excellent results at .010-.012" into the lands with my 6BR and 105 VLD.

 

[Erik Cortina]

I used a Hornady tool to find the lands at 1.800 and loaded at 1.815 when you say change seating depth would you work to like 1.815, 1.812, 1.809, 1.806, 1.803 1.800 1.797, 1.794?

I'm shooting 105 Berger match VLD

That's correct.

 

[scalian]

Here is a target at 29.1g varget with seating depth from .015 jam to .003 out of the lands. My thought is that .012 jam puts me in the middle of three good groups leaving some margin for error.

Thoughts?

 

[Erik Cortina]

Here is a target at 29.1g varget with seating depth from .015 jam to .003 out of the lands. My thought is that .012 jam puts me in the middle of three good groups leaving some margin for error.

Thoughts?

Yes, .012" is what I wold go with. Now you can take that seating depth and shoot groups every .1 gr. and try to bring it in even more. It seems like you are there, but see if you can tighten it up even more. Nice shooting!

 

[savageshooter86]

I would go with 003 jam. With that charge and seating depth it gave you the best group. I never heard of doing a seating depth test the same as working up load weights as far as finding 3 close together and using the middle one? ???

Unless you are not confident your set up will produce consistent OAL(base to ogive) loaded rounds

 

[Down South]

Worked up a load yesterday with Vihtavuori N-150 and 200 gr hybrids using Erik's method. I did it in .3 gr increments with bullets loaded .010 into the lands. Found a wide node easily, went back later in the evening and took the charge in the middle and it hammered. Group size was .180 and the best seating depth was the original one i tried, .010 into the lands but .010 jump shot really well also. in the .2s. The worst group i got was still half inch no matter what seating depth i tried. My rifle seems to really like this powder. I could never get it to shoot this good with Varget with the 200s, it shot well with the 185s though. Now im gonna take it out to distance and see what happens.

 

[Erik Cortina]

I would go with 003 jam. With that charge and seating depth it gave you the best group. I never heard of doing a seating depth test the same as working up load weights as far as finding 3 close together and using the middle one? ???

Unless you are not confident your set up will produce consistent OAL(base to ogive) loaded rounds

This is where people get in trouble. They go with the smallest group that will be inconsistent instead of going with a little bigger group that will agg and be consistent. Do you know how fast you will erode .003" in a match such as F-Class Nationals? Guys that go with the .003" jam are the ones cursing their guns at the end of the day.

 

[Steve Blair]

What Erik wrote is correct. I always validate a potential load choice by shooting five 5-shot groups, over my chronograph, at match cadence. If all five groups do not meet my criteria, I determine the cause and fix it or continue development. I'm taking about 550 rounds to Raton this August. It's certainly worth the effort to make sure it is the best load.

 

[savageshooter86]

Ok so for seating depth once you find the node, we should be doing the same process with seating depth? Shoot groups and find the groups that hit same POI vertically and chose the middle seating depth?

Just suppose his smallest group was 012 jam, and it shot 0.2 MOA. Then seating depths of 006,003, and touch shot larger groups 0.35 MOA, but hit vertically same. Wouldn't the 012 seating depth Agg better since it shoots the smallest group with that powder charge?(Assuming these loads were verified on another range session like sleepygator wrote

 

[Steve Blair]

There's nothing that says you can't get lucky and hit the right setting immediately. It's a question of assuring that you have a tolerant load. If your seating depth varies ±.001" and leade position increases .002" over a two day tournament, the load is potentially .003" from optimal seating depth. By loading the middle of the range, changes like this are tolerated better. [br]
While I've successfully shot jammed loads, I always found them more sensitive that jumped loads. Since the advent of Berger Hybrids, I no longer attempt to find jammed loads.

 

[Erik Cortina]

Ok so for seating depth once you find the node, we should be doing the same process with seating depth? Shoot groups and find the groups that hit same POI vertically and chose the middle seating depth?

Just suppose his smallest group was 012 jam, and it shot 0.2 MOA. Then seating depths of 006,003, and touch shot larger groups 0.35 MOA, but hit vertically same. Wouldn't the 012 seating depth Agg better since it shoots the smallest group with that powder charge?(Assuming these loads were verified on another range session like sleepygator wrote

Savagaeshooter, we don't need any what if's. Simply take the 3 groups that are the same place vertically and average the group size, then take the small group you like and average it with the groups on each side of it and you will have your answer on which would agg better.

 

[savageshooter86]

Erik and Steve thanks for the info.

The 003 jam and the 000 and 003 jump seem to hit same POI, just low on the target vs the others. But 000 appears to scatter. So I guess that too shows some potential issue like Steve said if you get some erosion during a long match with a lot of rounds fired.

 

[Erik Cortina]

I agree that the .003" jam, 0, and .003" jump have potential, however, I don't ever recommend being at 0 due to bullet inconsistencies some will touch and some will jump, therefore giving you problems. I would keep jumping further to see how I does. Try .006, .009, .012, etc out to about .024", you might find a more accurate node.

 

[BrotherO]

Good evening Gentlemen, Could I ask for any suggestions please? I just got back from the range.

308 winchester
168 Berger Hybrids
IMI Brass
VV N540 powder
CCI BR2 primers

Seated .020 from the lands

Thank You for all your suggestions and a great thread!!

 

[MNFinn]

Good evening Gentlemen, Could I ask for any suggestions please? I just got back from the range.

308 winchester
168 Berger Hybrids
IMI Brass
VV N540 powder
CCI BR2 primers

Seated .020 from the lands

Thank You for all your suggestions and a great thread!!

Looks to me like 41 is the one, but the guys who know more will say for sure

 

[BrotherO]

yeah the first 3 groups are all up in the same quadrant

 

[MNFinn]

yeah the first 3 groups are all up in the same quadrant

yup. That 4th group is just a little lower, though close enough, I'm onto totally sure.....still thinking 41 is the one though

 

[BrotherO]

Thanks Emn83

 

[Erik Cortina]

I agree, 41.0 looks good.