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Load Development

George
I have tested all of the processes I use in reloading with group shooting at 1k. The two things I stopped doing because I could never see a shred of benefit were sorting by concentricity and reaming flash holes. My loaded rounds tend to be under .0025 concentricity.
 
dmoran said:
Stool,

To each our own.... if running Ladders at 100/200 works for you, more power to you !.!.!

At 100 the faster Mv impact some what lower, and are aggressively effected by the bullet epicyclic cycle and can still be in an aggressive state of pitching and yawing (especially long, boat-tail bullets).
At 200, depending on trajectory of the combo, the faster MV might impact low, in the middle, or high, and is the worse distance to ladder test in my opinion, due to ballistic arc.
At 300 and further, they begin to predominately stack up, slower's low to faster's high. The epicyclic motion is nil, and are easy to signify and plot vertical dispersion.

If using a chronograph with a good setup, with ability to very accurate velocity data, then it is possible to get a better perspective to a 100/200 ladder test from a velocity standpoint, but still very hard to plot true vertical dispersion, which is the basis to ladder testing, do to the lack of trajectory.

And yes, I am talking for any rifle, other then low velocity cartridges. I do a fair amount of custom load development each year (owner of "The Accuracy Shoppe") and cover a wide range of calibers and rifle types, and is where I conduct the bulk of my ladder testing each year.

Best of Luck
Donovan Moran

Donovan,
Where do you start with for seating depth on a new cartridge when you do your initial ladder test? After your ladder when you start varying your seating depths how much do you change seating depths by? .010 at a time or less?
Alex
 
Alex,
Thanks for your reply and the benefit of your experience. One more question: are you seating in the lands or off the lands?? thanks, George
 
+1 to LRPV, stool you will learn the guys around here know what there talking about, it's a different mentality than allot of the Rambo sites, these guys are professionals with good hearts. While there opinions may on some things such as load development but they all know what there talking about. Many of these people are well established and well recognized shooters and winners in shooting sports. When I came here I had already shot some, but I humbled myself and soaked in all the knowledge I could. I have made good friends here, and when these people speak I listen intently then ask questions, everyone I have ever asked for advice has given it to me. Ok my rants over..lol
 
NCVarhtr said:
Alex,
Thanks for your reply and the benefit of your experience. One more question: are you seating in the lands or off the lands?? thanks, George

I have never owned a rifle that shot best in the lands. My newest dasher barrel I wanted it to shoot in the lands, I went through the tuning process and ended up .010 off again.
 
Thanks Donovan,
I had always wondered if seating depth would skew the ladder. Say if you shot the ladder at .010 off, but the best seating depth was really .050 off would the results from the ladder still be valid? I figure they would still be close.

Have you ever had the ladder not work? Example, I am working with a new cartridge right now. I shot a ladder last week end. In the node it put 6 shots in an inch at 300. Thats a 6 grain window, its a big case. Now if I go back and load a charge in that group I got a vertical group. Problem is, I can't explore that whole node because I start to get into pressure.
 
I usually just start with saami oal, load ladder chargers, find node, fine tune then tackle seating depth. I've never had an issue doing it this way.
 
interesting that most don't think, or from experience, that seating depth change AFTER finding powder charge doesn't effect the load. I would think that it would move it slightly(the optimal charge window)
 
A while back I did what I called a load map that included 5 thou seating depths from touching to 20 thou off with .2 powder increments for each. I overlayed the data in a graph. Showed two nodes. A higher velocity node that had low ES in the lands and the next lowest velocity node had low ES ten thou off lands. ES was high for the low velocity node when in the lands and high for the faster node off the lands.....interesting.
 
For any long range bullets i generally find exactly the opposite. 80% of the time I am better off touching or into the lands



zfastmalibu said:
NCVarhtr said:
Alex,
Thanks for your reply and the benefit of your experience. One more question: are you seating in the lands or off the lands?? thanks, George

I have never owned a rifle that shot best in the lands. My newest dasher barrel I wanted it to shoot in the lands, I went through the tuning process and ended up .010 off again.
 
The link below is a very good read.

http://forum.snipershide.com/snipers-hide-reloading/44763-hand-loading-long-range-4-powderin.html
 
dmoran said:
Alex,

Yes, I have had ladders that didn't go well until I found the seating (or other cartridge/loading/rifle issues of course).
In my experience, when all other aspects to the hand-loads are right, if powder testing is not going well, go after the seating, then go back to the powder. When I am pretty sure what powder/charge/bullet combination I will be using, finding the seating zone first can prevail well.

Like most all aspects, if a ladder test is not going well, something is wrong. Seating or primers typically being the culprit -IME

Donovan

Thanks Donovan, That makes a lot of sense.
 
savageshooter86 said:
interesting that most don't think, or from experience, that seating depth change AFTER finding powder charge doesn't effect the load. I would think that it would move it slightly(the optimal charge window)

I think most believe that alerting anything changes the optimal powder charge. I will tweak powder again if I change anything.
 

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