Good groups @100yds.

[Webster]

I have 2, both BRXs shoot much like my PPC. The barrels that don't go away. When I can shoot back to back groups 2 days in a row in the zero or 1s, I have a load. After that I only use a tuner for adjustment.

Your shooting better than Tony Boyer with over 130 Hall of Fame points.

 

[Northridge]

So you are finding the opposite of what I have found. For me, the lesser BC bullets have to shoot smaller at 200 yds than the higher BC bullets to be competitive at long range. Then again I am comparing two dramatically different cartridges and that must give different results than higher vs lower BC in the same cartridge.

not sure I would say our are findings are different at starting point, but finish Line MOA being smaller through less lost shots on the other end. similar weight class of bullet in my reference to say 6mm. 7mm & 30 cal will have even larger margins of success and failure with long for caliber bullets.

Shawn Williams

 

[CharlieNC]

I develop my loads at 200yd, initially doing a charge ladder using 2 or 3 shots per charge. The node is identified where the vertical poi is stable across several charge weights, and that does not necessarily mean that charge gave the smallest group size. But we all know some people would choose the charge weight based on the group size instead, which means the vertical performance would likely suck at long range. So it depends on the manner by which the small 100yd group was developed.

 

[Bill Norris]

This is where barrel quality comes in to play, a hummer will shoot through conditions an average barrel won't.... jim

Jim, just so I understand please clarify. How does a barrel determine what kind of conditions are present down range ? It seemingly would have to be the bullet that would be dealing with conditions after it left the barrel. If the quality of the barrel has to be that good, would it not just out shoot any other barrel all the time?

 

[INTJ]

not sure I would say our are findings are different at starting point, but finish Line MOA being smaller through less lost shots on the other end. similar weight class of bullet in my reference to say 6mm. 7mm & 30 cal will have even larger margins of success and failure with long for caliber bullets.

Shawn Williams

That makes sense. In BR, there is an increased opportunity for lost shots at the starting point since the 300 recoils much more than the 6mm. However once you get used to that then it pays off at the other end.....

 

[johara1]

Jim, just so I understand please clarify. How does a barrel determine what kind of conditions are present down range ? It seemingly would have to be the bullet that would be dealing with conditions after it left the barrel. If the quality of the barrel has to be that good, would it not just out shoot any other barrel all the time?

You only appreciate it once you own a hummer, They are not affected by slight condition changes. so groups get smaller..... jim

 

[Northridge]

You only appreciate it once you own a hummer, They are not affected by slight condition changes. so groups get smaller..... jim

I often carry a different opinion than Jim for sure & hummer barrels well I don't put as much vestment in them as I did years ago, actually hard to get a "bad" Barrel these days but I would agree that on occasion a situation will just defy Science and even reason, leaving me shaking my head and going "well I will take it"

Shawn Williams

 

[BartsBullets]

Your shooting better than Tony Boyer with over 130 Hall of Fame points.

Tony’s up to 176 Hall of Fame points!

 

[johara1]

I often carry a different opinion than Jim for sure & hummer barrels well I don't put as much vestment in them as I did years ago, actually hard to get a "bad" Barrel these days but I would agree that on occasion a situation will just defy Science and even reason, leaving me shaking my head and going "well I will take it"

Shawn Williams

Pretty easy to find a hummer, just shoot 6 shots at 100 yards in 180 out conditions 3 from each way holding the same point of aim, if it shoots a hole, you got a hummer and the smaller the hole the better. if you get a weather report you got an average barrel.... jim

 

[Steve Ladino]

Not trying to start anything,
Is a good group @100yds more than not going to group
good @600yds?
I know a .1 @100yds doesn't mean a .6 @ 600yds.
But reasonable size.
In the "warehouse" test he mentioned that a good group close
translated to a good group at distance.
No guessing, want actual testing done on load development.

I think you need to look at the velocities at 100 to evaluate a load for longer distances.

 

[JEFFPPC]

Your shooting better than Tony Boyer with over 130 Hall of Fame points.

If you shot competitively you would learn shooting to develop a load in good conditions with no time limit is far different than shooting in a match in mostly less than optimal conditions.. If your rifle will not shoot small in practice or load development conditions it will not shoot small in a match. By ridiculing those who spend much time and effort to wring the best possible performance out of their equipment, you do not help yourself. Perhaps you should find out what they do you don't. I shoot 40 to 50 matches a year or more and try to learn from other shooters and try various things to improve to my rifles and shooting.. Try it, might work for you if you are willing to invest the time and effort. Never think that what you are doing can't be improved.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

If you have a rifle that will shoot smaller at distance than close up you can make a lot of money. My buddy al matson has been offering lots of money for many years to anybody that can show him. Its an easy paycheck if you can do it. Get in touch with him over on brc- his user name is alinwa.
(Nobody has done it yet btw.)

 

[Ned Ludd]

Jim, just so I understand please clarify. How does a barrel determine what kind of conditions are present down range ? It seemingly would have to be the bullet that would be dealing with conditions after it left the barrel. If the quality of the barrel has to be that good, would it not just out shoot any other barrel all the time?

It has been suggested that a bullet leaves the bore of a "hummer" barrel with less pitch and yaw than it would from an "average" barrel. Therefore, a bullet leaving a hummer barrel would require a much shorter minimum distance (or none at all) for the pitch/yaw to dissipate. Because drag is increased by bullet pitch/yaw immediately after exiting the bore, a bullet leaving a hummer barrel with little to no pitch/yaw has less drag and may actually behave as if it has a markedly higher BC than it theoretically should, and hence be less affected by atmospheric conditions. Why some few barrels are hummers but most are not is a whole different question.

 

[Erik Cortina]

It has been suggested that a bullet leaves the bore of a "hummer" barrel with less pitch and yaw than it would from an "average" barrel. Therefore, a bullet leaving a hummer barrel would require a much shorter minimum distance (or none at all) for the pitch/yaw to dissipate. Because drag is increased by bullet pitch/yaw immediately after exiting the bore, a bullet leaving a hummer barrel with little to no pitch/yaw has less drag and may actually behave as if it has a markedly higher BC than it theoretically should, and hence be less affected by atmospheric conditions. Why some few barrels are hummers but most are not is a whole different question.

I tell shooters that a tuned barrel cuts through the wind better. I agree with you.

 

[johara1]

I tell shooters that a tuned barrel cuts through the wind better. I agree with you.

Yes a tuned barrel is hard to beat, after I do get it there I check on the barrel quality with my 100 yd. test for a hummer and you will get your answer ... jim

 

[Brians356]

If you have a rifle that will shoot smaller at distance than close up you can make a lot of money. My buddy al matson has been offering lots of money for many years to anybody that can show him. Its an easy paycheck if you can do it. Get in touch with him over on brc- his user name is alinwa.
(Nobody has done it yet btw.)

Like that roadside cafe offering $500 if you can finish their Goliath Burger in one hour. "Seemed like a good idea at the time."
-

 

[INTJ]

If you have a rifle that will shoot smaller at distance than close up you can make a lot of money. My buddy al matson has been offering lots of money for many years to anybody that can show him. Its an easy paycheck if you can do it. Get in touch with him over on brc- his user name is alinwa.
(Nobody has done it yet btw.)

I don't recall anyone saying they have a rifle that will shoot smaller groups at long range than short range. What I have seen is people claiming that their rifle will MOA better at land range than short range.

I have an example from my own personal experience that is as close to this as I have come across. In 2006 I shot two 100 yd 5-shot groups that measured 1/2" with my 300 WSM BR LG. That is 1/2 MOA and the load I selected for competition. Over the next few months, when I happened to shoot in good conditions at 1000 yds, I shot five 5-shot groups between 3.5 and 4". That's .35 to .4 MOA. I did it enough times for it not to be a fluke.

That is a very slight improvement in MOA, but can also be explained away. There is a good chance that the 100 yd groups didn't have as good of condition as the good 1000 yd groups. The only way to settle this for sure is to have a sonic target at 100 yds while shooting 1000 yd groups.

 

[BartsBullets]

I don't recall anyone saying they have a rifle that will shoot smaller groups at long range than short range. What I have seen is people claiming that their rifle will MOA better at land range than short range.

I have an example from my own personal experience that is as close to this as I have come across. In 2006 I shot two 100 yd 5-shot groups that measured 1/2" with my 300 WSM BR LG. That is 1/2 MOA and the load I selected for competition. Over the next few months, when I happened to shoot in good conditions at 1000 yds, I shot five 5-shot groups between 3.5 and 4". That's .35 to .4 MOA. I did it enough times for it not to be a fluke.

That is a very slight improvement in MOA, but can also be explained away. There is a good chance that the 100 yd groups didn't have as good of condition as the good 1000 yd groups. The only way to settle this for sure is to have a sonic target at 100 yds while shooting 1000 yd groups.

Do you think that your load may have come to you over those few months?
Bart

 

[Brians356]

I have an example from my own personal experience that is as close to this as I have come across. In 2006 I shot two 100 yd 5-shot groups that measured 1/2" with my 300 WSM BR LG. That is 1/2 MOA and the load I selected for competition. Over the next few months, when I happened to shoot in good conditions at 1000 yds, I shot five 5-shot groups between 3.5 and 4". That's .35 to .4 MOA. I did it enough times for it not to be a fluke.

There's no statistically significant difference between 100 and 1000 yards in those data.
-

 

[INTJ]

Do you think that your load may have come to you over those few months?
Bart

Who knows, I wasn't that sophisticated then. I only "tuned" my trumpet. The very first match I shot that load I won LG Group and Score, HG Group and Score, shot high single score in both LG and HG, and shot small LG group of the match. I didn't work on the load any more after that.