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What’s with the hate for 6.5CM in some circles?

Marketing helps, but marketing won’t sell junk.

The 6.5 creedmoor is the first SA cartridge I’m aware of that will do all this:
- feed from 2.8” oal
- with 2300+ lb feet at the muzzle
- with a bullet over 0.287 sectional density
- with a modern 1.5 deg leade
- in SAAMI form

Apparently you never heard of the 6.5x47 Lapua? It did everything you listed, before the Creedmoor, as well or better than the Creedmoor, and had *way* better brass than the Creedmoor for many years... but Hornady marketed the heck out of their product, whereas Lapua didn't. That, and cartridges with 'metric' names traditionally don't do well in the American market (cartridges with civ/mil variants like .223 Rem / 5.56x45 Nato, etc. are pretty much the sole exceptions)
 
Except you didn’t carry a FN FAL, you carried a Rifle, FN, C1A1.

Also, they didn’t need to pay you, they just took the C1A1 out of the weapons room, and replaced them with C7 rifles. You really didn’t have much of a choice.

Don’t remind me. Right then, I knew the new breed won.
The old FN had much to give, it taught the shooter to bloody well SHOOT, and shoot well. Shoot to count. The CF did one thing right; it took FA capability away from the FN.
Not spray and pray or squirt for a bit of hurt, or whatever the heck they say with the C7. There’s nothing wrong with it other than it meant a complete doctrinal change in the way a ground war was fought.
Out with “one shot, one kill”, to if you fill the air with enough lead you’ll eventually hit something soft and warm.
I took my release less than a year later.

Funny, I went back 10 years later for a Unit reunion, and everything, and I mean everything, had changed. No more OD, no steel pots, no C1A1, and a mamby pamby “you hurt my feewings by saying a bad word” attitude was oozing about in place of kick ass gung ho.
It too the sandbox to bring it back. Learned how to kick ass all over again.
 
Apparently you never heard of the 6.5x47 Lapua? It did everything you listed, before the Creedmoor, as well or better than the Creedmoor, and had *way* better brass than the Creedmoor for many years... but Hornady marketed the heck out of their product, whereas Lapua didn't. That, and cartridges with 'metric' names traditionally don't do well in the American market (cartridges with civ/mil variants like .223 Rem / 5.56x45 Nato, etc. are pretty much the sole exceptions)
Forgive me if I overlooked it, but I do not think the 6.5x47 has been submitted to SAAMI which really complicates it's commercial adoption in the US, just as a lack of CIPS would hinder use in the EU. I asked if anyone knew for sure earlier in the thread, but I also suspect that Lapua is not licensing it and no one will pay to put it through SAAMI if Lapua won't. As you alluded to, I also hang the 6.5x47's relative obscurity at Lapua's door. They didn't care to market or support it. They really remington'ed it (my new verb for when a company has something great and ruins it through negligence and poor business decisions). When Hornady saw the market, they decided to capitalize on it. They made a great design, they standardized it, and then they put their whole team behind it and the results show. I don't think a new round has ever seen quite this level of commercial success.
 
Hohn,
The 6.5 NM (NeedMore) is not elk capable in my state.
PA requires 27 caliber or larger. As does some other states.
The 7mm-08 doesn't need a "fast twist". Nor does any 7mm up to about a 180gr bullet. The "standard" 1:9 does just fine.

"2,300 lbft at the muzzle".
Shoot much game at the muzzle, do ya??:rolleyes:
I'd have to load down my 7mm-08 to get that.
Let us know when your ready for pull up underwear... ;)

The 6.5 is a caliber, not the cartridge. 6.5 has nothing to do with feeding in a gas gun, quality of brass, recoil, or barrel life.

You just checked off all the good attributes for a BAR in 270 Win:D
 
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I remember seeing ads in Field & Stream, Outdoor Life and a few other shooting rags extolling the virtues of the 7mm Remington Magnum when it was first introduced. I also remember it was all the rage of the 100 yard Pennsylvania deer hunters who ran out and bought them. Same scenario with the 300 Win mag.
 

Chris LeDoux


"Five Dollar Fine"

We're a fun lovin' crowd, kinda rowdy and loud,
Our jukebox won't play no sad songs,
So don't come in here and cry in your beer,
Cause we don't care about who done who wrong.

We got a five dollar fine for whinin'
We're tell you before you come in.
And if it ain't on your mind to have a good time,
Ya'll come back and see us again.

Well, we don't really care about your clothes or your hair,
This party's open to all.
Yah we like a good joke and it's alright to smoke,
We got just one rule on the wall.

We got a five dollar fine for whinin'
We're tell you before you come in.
And if it ain't on your mind to have a good time,
Ya'll come back and see us again.

Now there's too many fools makin' too many rules,
That's one thing you can't say about us.
Cause we all get along when we sing the same song
There's just one thing that causes a fuss.

We got a five dollar fine for whinin'
We're tell you before you come in.
And if it ain't on your mind to have a good time,
Ya'll come back and see us again.

We got a five dollar fine for whinin'
We're tell you before you come in.
And if it ain't on your mind to have a good time,
Ya'll come back and see us again.

We're got a five dollar fine for whinin'
 
You select the 6.5 for target work, hunting, and for tactical use in a military application, and in all three instances you’d be giving up very little to the alternatives. How many cartridges can have that said about them?

Uhhh.....dozens.......
 
For example, the lowly and boring 30-06 will shoot a 168 grain TTSX at 2900-3000 fps. The bullet has a BC of .470 making this round elk-capable to 600 yds with low recoil out of a sporter weight rifle. This combo gives up nothing to the 7mm Rem Mag AND has a larger bullet diameter.

If we are objective about it, a 300 WSM, 300 Win, or 300 Wby doesn't add a significant amount of practical performance for all the added powder and recoil.

That said I like all the above cartridges and haven't used the 30-06 in years. I happen to think my 7.75 lb 300 WSM rig is a little more specialized for deer and my 33-28 Nosler is a little more specialized for elk. However, that is just my own personal taste and has nothing to do with practice performance.

Such is the 6.5 Creed, though even less so over all the other similar chamberings. Objectively, I think it's main advantage is the availability of factory ammo and factory rifles that are reasonably accurate. Now it would make a lot of sense as a light
machine-gun round over the 5.56.
 
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std7mag
Soo ur a big fan of the 7mm..
Naaaa. I only have 4 right now.
7mm Rem Mag, 284 Win, (2) 280 Rem.

I burned out the throat on my 7mm-08AI.
It's a 250 Savage now.
Along with the 257 Roberts, i'm quickly becoming a 25 caliber fan.
Kills game beyond what ballistics would suggest.
 
Then again if Remington had given the 7-08 a fast twist and good reamer, it might have killed off the .308 decades ago.
Yet another example of Remington making an orphan of it's own offspring.

Apparently, Remington never thought anyone would ever shoot thier cartridges at anything but deer and groundhogs.

Remington's standard twist on the 308Win was 1/12 right up until they folded. They were literally the ONLY company still using 1/12 for anything in 30 caliber that I'm aware of. Thier standard twist on the 30-06 and 300Win was 1/10...WTF!!?
 
Hohn,
The 6.5 NM (NeedMore) is not elk capable in my state.
PA requires 27 caliber or larger. As does some other states.
The 7mm-08 doesn't need a "fast twist". Nor does any 7mm up to about a 180gr bullet. The "standard" 1:9 does just fine.

"2,300 lbft at the muzzle".
Shoot much game at the muzzle, do ya??:rolleyes:
I'd have to load down my 7mm-08 to get that.
Let us know when your ready for pull up underwear... ;)

The 6.5 is a caliber, not the cartridge. 6.5 has nothing to do with feeding in a gas gun, quality of brass, recoil, or barrel life.

You just checked off all the good attributes for a BAR in 270 Win:D
Are you sure pa requires a 27 cal? What page would that be on in the rules and reg.
 
Are you sure pa requires a 27 cal? What page would that be on in the rules and reg.
I stand corrected. Last year was indeed 27 caliber.
In this years guide it states 26 caliber.
Page 53.
The times, they are a changing! Lol

I'd still take the 7mm-08 before a CM.
Just my personal preference.

Now all i need is to get drawn in the elk lottery. Put in 10 years now.
 
All this chirping about who's favorite cartridge chambering is better and badder is why we're loosing the Second Amendment argument. Everybody's willing to disenfranchise someone else's ideas in order to validate their own.
Jack O'Connor pretty much destroyed a lot of arguments about what is capable of killing game long ago. High BC and good Sectional Density does make a difference. Opinions vary but facts don't.

I own and have shot and loaded for many of the chamberings mentioned. Each has it's own niche and unique properties. The good 7-08 was designed as a good alternative for Silhouette competition and built quite a large following although it did nothing more than the 7X57 did. That 30-06 needs to push a 190gr. bullet at near 3Kf/s in order to match the drop and drift of the lowly Creedmoor with a 140gr. bullet at longish range. It's still a good cartridge and in the hands of a good marksman has taken all manner of game.

As time goes on new things are developed and each will either live or die on it's own merits. The 6.8SPC was decent for what it was designed for but lost favor for the 6.5 Grendel and now that's being diminished by the 6ARC. That doesn't mean those others are no good. It just means that sometimes things can be improved on. Sometimes not.
 
I don't recall any hate but I do recall tall tales from days of yore where Jack O'Connor's marketing of the 270 caused a lot of people to ditch their 30-06's for this hot do all end all sexy cartridge. When you talk about marketing, Jack was the master. About the 270 he said:

“Assuming that a cartridge can make its way on merit alone, that cartridge is the .270 W.C.F. In its early years it sat in the corner, dressed in sackcloth and covered with ashes, while few riflemen suspected that underneath it had a figger like Miss America, a disposition like an angel, and that it could bake pies like Mother used to make.”

Now that's marketing in its finest form. It's true that there is nothing new under the sun.

Sounds like Jack may have been a writer for the Herters catalog.
 

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