Scope for one mile
- Thread starter wboggs
- Start date
Jarhead6870
Gold $$ Contributor
I shoot FFP with a graduated reticle to have the ability to spot the shot and make corrections. BIG power is not a magic solution to getting hits as mirage usually comes into play before maxing out. I typically shoot a 30" plate at 2000 yards at 15 power and have no problem seeing the target or having a heavy line weight; but this is scope dependent.
As mentioned in a previous post, should you decide to shoot farther and run out of turret, having the FFP scope allows you to hold over and still make a shot. Not saying you can't shoot SFP and do the job, but translating elevation values to graduations on the reticle can be cumbersome if not at the calibrated magnification, or half calibration, for your scope which can be too much, or too little, magnification.
If looking at scopes, be aware of internal travel and how it relates to the base on your rifle and what the necessary elevation is needed to shoot the distance you intend based on your ammunition and ballistics. Many of the scopes available today have over 100 MOA or 30 MILs of travel. Selecting a base that transfers the majority of a scope's down travel and making it available for up travel is beneficial. I use a 50 MOA base and can still zero at 100 yards with 28 MILS of UP elevation. This easily gets me to 2000 yards with my rifle. Again, this is also dependent on your enviromentals and the ballistics of your caliber/ammunition.
As mentioned in a previous post, should you decide to shoot farther and run out of turret, having the FFP scope allows you to hold over and still make a shot. Not saying you can't shoot SFP and do the job, but translating elevation values to graduations on the reticle can be cumbersome if not at the calibrated magnification, or half calibration, for your scope which can be too much, or too little, magnification.
If looking at scopes, be aware of internal travel and how it relates to the base on your rifle and what the necessary elevation is needed to shoot the distance you intend based on your ammunition and ballistics. Many of the scopes available today have over 100 MOA or 30 MILs of travel. Selecting a base that transfers the majority of a scope's down travel and making it available for up travel is beneficial. I use a 50 MOA base and can still zero at 100 yards with 28 MILS of UP elevation. This easily gets me to 2000 yards with my rifle. Again, this is also dependent on your enviromentals and the ballistics of your caliber/ammunition.
I would say 2nd.
Conditions dictate your magnification. Mirage can force you to shoot at 10-15 magnification and if you have a 25ish max power scope the reticle on many ffp scopes can be hard to see at those lower magnifications. Holdover trees especially.
Conditions dictate your magnification. Mirage can force you to shoot at 10-15 magnification and if you have a 25ish max power scope the reticle on many ffp scopes can be hard to see at those lower magnifications. Holdover trees especially.
Obviously there are plenty of options and opinion expressed here, but I would suggest that you consider how the erector tube springs function as a primary factor in scope selection for long range.
I had 2 identical scopes and loaned one to a friend for a match. That left me with no spare. We went into a match with one mile shots. When we put that much elevation on the scopes, the erector tube no longer applied sufficient force on the leaf springs. One scope locked up completely, the other had a limited range of adjustment but we could not re-establish a good zero. Both scopes went back to Leopold for warranty, but we were both effectively out of the match.
That stage took out at least one scope in each relay, but three in our relay alone.
So, for ELR shooting there is no such thing as a scope with too much travel.
Coil springs on the erector tube would be a confidence builder over leaf springs since coil springs easily offer a greater range of travel without taking a set.
Leaving a scope dialed for 100 yards puts the maximum compression on erector tube springs, so its good insurance to dial the turrets up and away from the springs for long term storage.
I had 2 identical scopes and loaned one to a friend for a match. That left me with no spare. We went into a match with one mile shots. When we put that much elevation on the scopes, the erector tube no longer applied sufficient force on the leaf springs. One scope locked up completely, the other had a limited range of adjustment but we could not re-establish a good zero. Both scopes went back to Leopold for warranty, but we were both effectively out of the match.
That stage took out at least one scope in each relay, but three in our relay alone.
So, for ELR shooting there is no such thing as a scope with too much travel.
Coil springs on the erector tube would be a confidence builder over leaf springs since coil springs easily offer a greater range of travel without taking a set.
Leaving a scope dialed for 100 yards puts the maximum compression on erector tube springs, so its good insurance to dial the turrets up and away from the springs for long term storage.
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The 'scope I would boost for one-mile shooting is the one that's on the rifle I go to first at that distance, my 338Lap. That 'scope is an MOA Valdada Recon G2. Yes, it's FFP, but frankly I don't find that an issue. But then I next to never go above 20X magnification even at mile, sometimes I'll just stick at 12X. In terms of quality it's a top-notch optic. In SFP I use a Delta Stryker HD 5-50X56 DLS-3 (MOA). I have two of these 'scopes, but as in the case of the Valdada, I rarely go over 20X magnification. That 'scope also offers excellent optical quality IMO.
Like other posters here I have used bases, or, in my case, a combination of bases + Burris Signature rings to "save" elevation on the 'scope that would otherwise be lost. But be aware, you will not get the same quality of view at the end of elevation or windage travel as you do in the middle, and I don't care how expensive or fancy your 'scope is (except the March Genesis, which is a unique design commensurate with its price, $6,000 mas o menos). That's why adjustable bases, and prisms, have something to recommend them.
Like other posters here I have used bases, or, in my case, a combination of bases + Burris Signature rings to "save" elevation on the 'scope that would otherwise be lost. But be aware, you will not get the same quality of view at the end of elevation or windage travel as you do in the middle, and I don't care how expensive or fancy your 'scope is (except the March Genesis, which is a unique design commensurate with its price, $6,000 mas o menos). That's why adjustable bases, and prisms, have something to recommend them.
@Woofie I like what you're saying, (and I love your signature; 1 year in a row.) Yes, looking through a scope at the end of its internal travel is like giving up the best IQ for that scope and settling for much less, regardless of price. The Genesis 6-60X56 is indeed $6K and over, but since a lot of people here seem to think 15X or so is the maximum they need or can use, the Genesis 4-40X52 is around $5k. That's still substantial, but when you consider that you don't have to buy a mount or prism or anything else to use it, (it comes with everything you need,) the price is a lot more in line with the other solutions.
Plus, you're always looking through the middle of the optical path (the sweet spot) and it has Super ED glass that help a great deal with mirage, as I have discussed in other threads at this site. I am also impressed with the wide-angle eyepiece on the Genesis models, thy provide a bigger FOV and equivalent magnifications.
Plus, you're always looking through the middle of the optical path (the sweet spot) and it has Super ED glass that help a great deal with mirage, as I have discussed in other threads at this site. I am also impressed with the wide-angle eyepiece on the Genesis models, thy provide a bigger FOV and equivalent magnifications.
The New Vortex Razor III 6-36x56 has 36 mils or 120 MOA of elevation and better glass than the Gen II so if I could do it with the Gen II the Gen III would be worth a look for someone wanting to try and wanting to stay below the $3K mark. I just got a Gen III and it's on my .22 now but will be getting another for my centerfire soon enough.
alf
Silver $$ Contributor
Plain 'ol Nightforce NSX 5.5-22x50 will easily get you to over a mile. No need for FFP......
They have 100 minutes of adjustment, paired with a 40 MOA base and you're golden to 2K or better, depending on cartridge/bullet.
Here's a setup at 1800 plus:
And you can still quarter a milk jug:
They have 100 minutes of adjustment, paired with a 40 MOA base and you're golden to 2K or better, depending on cartridge/bullet.
Here's a setup at 1800 plus:
And you can still quarter a milk jug:
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Valdada terminator for the win
nakneker
Gold $$ Contributor
I’m fan, tried the recon gen 1 and loved It, then a terminator. Big and heavy but very capable.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Its hard to turn loose the coin but if you aint weight restricted i cant think of a better more solid scope available at any price besides the new side focus model i havent bought yet
nakneker
Gold $$ Contributor
We share that opinion!
Desert Fox
Silver $$ Contributor
Depend on what the target is. If you're shooting just a mile, a good 5-25 magnification in FFP or 2nd Focal will do. I preferred FFP for my ELR rifles in mils. I shot my 338 Lapua Ackley during the inaugural ELR World Record Event in 2018. The scope is US Optics 5-25X56.
Attachments
Really, you can't think of better, more solid scope, at any price?
Here is one of many that fit those specs:
It's called the March Genesis 6-60X56 HM. It has Super ED glass (the 2 elements at the objective,) it weighs just 3 ounces more than the scope you're touting and it's a quarter inch shorter., but the neat part is that the Genesis does not require any additional hardware such as rings or inclined rail or whatnot; it just mounts directly on the Picatinny rail on top your rifle.The Genesis has 400MOA (114MIL) of elevation to compared to that puny 100MOA, but there are two other distinctions with that large travel. Instead of the 50MOA up and 50MOA down with which you're so enthralled, the Genesis has 350MOA (100MIL) up and 50MOA (14MIL) down and has 150MOA (40MIL) of windage.
Since it's an external adjustment, you're always looking right through the middle of the riflescope, even at the extreme end of travel. That's really important because the IQ through the Super-ED lens system of the Genesis is nothing short of breathtaking and it would be a real shame to not take full advantage of it as the distance increases and you crank in more elevation.
It's the same glass as found in my March-X 10-60X56 HM that allows me to shoot year-round at 50X in F-class competition, regardless of mirage conditions; when others on the line wind down their magnification because the target is one big blur of crazed black amoeba, I stay at 50X and can still see the rings and hold on them. I'm not saying that Super ED glass is mirage-proof; I'm saying that the IQ does not degrade as quickly with Super ED glass compared to lesser glass. Of course, since my 10-50X56 HM is not a Genesis design, I mounted it on a 20 MOA rail using Burris Signature XTR rings with the inserts to get me in the middle of the optics at 1000 yards, where I do most of my shooting with this rifle.
Never forget that Deon, the makers of March scopes, are the ones who introduced ED glass in riflescopes 14 years ago and are currently the only ones using Super ED glass. They have the most experience with ED and Super ED glass in riflescope of ANY makers.
Yes, this riflescope is spendy at over $6k, but Dusty said at ANY price, and I just had to set him straight.
This is the ultimate in ELR riflescope currently. Nothing else comes close due to its innovative design and Super ED glass.
If its price tag is too much, there is the March Genesis 4-40X52 at around $5k. Same mechanism, somewhat smaller and with 248MOA (72MIL) up and 48MOA (14MIL) down.
Game. Set. Match.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
But its a march, which is a turnoff to most that were around in their early days, its externally adjustable which is a turnoff, and it cant be set in different rings to change the height. March scopes, not including that thing which ive never seen, are always darker when set side by side with others. Seems i only see the march majority in f-class anymore. I guess yall buy em all up
Jarhead6870
Gold $$ Contributor
Also know that the March scope uses external adjustments to elevate the rear of the scope which changes your eye/cheek position relative to the scope causing one to occasionally change the height of the cheekrest.
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