Dusty Stevens
Shiner
The way the seb sideplates are under the bag the more you tighten them the more it pushes out at the bottom not the top essentially squeezing the stock out the top. Look at part 44&45.
IBS Long Range Rulebook
- Thread starter dmoran
- Start date
Seb we would like you to come an shoot the 1000yd nationals IBS at cool acres this year with us if you just want to bring the rest you need I have a extra light gun in 6mmdasher I will load the ammo you need.PS we in the long range appreciated all the support you have given in the past an future.
Stan
Which clearly shows why the stock isn't being trapped.
seb
Site $$ Sponsor
Thank you Stan for your generous offer! I will take your offer, I will bring or send a new rest to you, after the match it's yours. Ok?
Please let me know when/where the match would be and how to register, how many match#/days, how many shots etc.
(Hopefully not in June because I have to shoot the F-Class Australian Nats in that time frame).
I hope people like Jim O'hara, Donovan, etc would be there too! You can complain everything directly to me there I hope.
Cheers,
seb.
sebastianlambang(at)yahoodotcom.
JBauer
Gold $$ Contributor
Dear Mozella:
I've read your post and thank you for what I believe to be constructive criticism of the rewriting of the New Long Range rules. I would like to point out to the contributors of this post that the New Long Range rules are in a one year trial period and contributions such as Mozella has suggested, can be incorporated at the next Winter Meeting. Mozella, it appears that you have a much better grasp of the English Language and I ask that you contribute some time to help rewrite the "front rest and sand bag" definitions for additional clarification purposes. The intent of what is written is a minimum of 1/2" of sand filled sand bags supporting and separating the forend of a rifle at any structural point of the front rest. Any bag retaining device may not come in contact with the rifle's forend at any point. There may not be more than 1/2" of contact between the sides of a forend and the sandbags that separate the forend from its rest's structural side supports. The "trapping" or capturing of the forend by the sandbags that support the forend of a rifle is a function of the shooter. A rest by itself cannot be illegal, only the way in which a shooter employs the rest can it create an illegal use of the rest and is covered by referees duties and their inspections. As always, a shooter may request Range officials and referees to review their rests and rifles prior to a match for assurance of legality. These New Long Range rules are nothing more than a sincere attempt to help all of us that shoot IBS long range competition. The Long Range Committee will openly accept constructive advise and do our best to help incorporate that advise into these New Long Range rules. Sincerely Jim Bauer
I've read your post and thank you for what I believe to be constructive criticism of the rewriting of the New Long Range rules. I would like to point out to the contributors of this post that the New Long Range rules are in a one year trial period and contributions such as Mozella has suggested, can be incorporated at the next Winter Meeting. Mozella, it appears that you have a much better grasp of the English Language and I ask that you contribute some time to help rewrite the "front rest and sand bag" definitions for additional clarification purposes. The intent of what is written is a minimum of 1/2" of sand filled sand bags supporting and separating the forend of a rifle at any structural point of the front rest. Any bag retaining device may not come in contact with the rifle's forend at any point. There may not be more than 1/2" of contact between the sides of a forend and the sandbags that separate the forend from its rest's structural side supports. The "trapping" or capturing of the forend by the sandbags that support the forend of a rifle is a function of the shooter. A rest by itself cannot be illegal, only the way in which a shooter employs the rest can it create an illegal use of the rest and is covered by referees duties and their inspections. As always, a shooter may request Range officials and referees to review their rests and rifles prior to a match for assurance of legality. These New Long Range rules are nothing more than a sincere attempt to help all of us that shoot IBS long range competition. The Long Range Committee will openly accept constructive advise and do our best to help incorporate that advise into these New Long Range rules. Sincerely Jim Bauer
seb
Site $$ Sponsor
That's why I said Jim has been barking to the wrong place and direction.
Thanks for explaining that matter, Dusty.
Seb I appreciate the offer I can not accept your generosity but you could give that rest to let's say the high junior shooter or to who you prefer.PS you bring a rest top to accommodate 6 inch rails I will let you shoot my heavy gun also I will pull the dates off of website it is our labor day weekend we would like to have you.
Attachments
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
Suggestion:
We do not describe rifles' chambers with language. We use drawings. The same it true for many other things. Why not use one or more drawings to make the intent of the rule more clear? For those that say that it is, I suggest that that is not a thing that one person or even a committee can certify. The true test is whether it is clear to someone who is less involved, who was not a part of the discussion, who does not know the history of the situation. Can anyone explain to me a disadvantage of a drawing?
We do not describe rifles' chambers with language. We use drawings. The same it true for many other things. Why not use one or more drawings to make the intent of the rule more clear? For those that say that it is, I suggest that that is not a thing that one person or even a committee can certify. The true test is whether it is clear to someone who is less involved, who was not a part of the discussion, who does not know the history of the situation. Can anyone explain to me a disadvantage of a drawing?
I'd be glad to help, but it's not a sport I participate in. The reason I posted is to (I hope) demonstrate how tricky rule-writing can be. I'm afraid I'm sticking my nose into someones business, but now that I'm in this deep, I might as well continue spouting off, with the sincere hope that I don't offend anyone.
The worst possible situation is to have people write rules concerning something they know absolutely nothing about. That's the trouble with the Inside The Beltway folks and elected representatives in Washington. They make a living doing that and the result is the horrible condition of our country at the moment.
With that in mind, a person like me, who doesn't shoot BR competition, would be a fool to pretend to be a rule writer for this particular type of competition.
Almost as bad as a totally clueless person (like me) writing the rules, would be a well-meaning competitor who's been around the sport since before Jesus joined the NRA. He so completely knows the rules inside and out, as well as all the changes over the years, that it's hard for him to read them like a newcomer with little or no experience might. What is crystal clear to the old-timer could very well be a mystery to the new guy. In fact, that's what prompted my first post.
I'm only a little bit familiar with the problem under discussion; however, I have a background as a technical writer, so what may have seemed OK to an experienced person, jumped out at me as potentially confusing.
For example, is the thickness of the front bag a real problem? I have no idea if a 1/4" thick bag (or even no bag at all) would offer an advantage or not. But if a bag no less than 1/2" thick is desirable for some reason, why not make that the point of the rule which might read something like: "The forearm of the rifle must be supported by a front bag. The front bag must be constructed so that any part of the forearm comes no closer than 1/2" (one half inch) to any rigid portion of the front rest".
Simple is usually better, as long as it addresses the problem sufficiently and a direct approach is nearly always better than writing a complicated set of specifications to indirectly solve a potential problem.
Of course, some joker might argue that he mills his front "bag" out of a billet of titanium. In that case you'd have to define what a "bag" is and perhaps specify how soft it must be. Competition brings out the best (and worst) in clever thinkers.
If the rifle shouldn't be locked into the front bag then I would suggest that it's best to address that problem head-on rather than try to specify what a front bag should look like in hopes that a set of detailed specifications would do the job. Often times, they don't.
Perhaps part of the rule could read: "The rifle must not be affixed to the front rest by any means which constrains vertical movement. The purpose of this section is to insure that the rifle, when raised vertically from the normal shooting position, can be lifted clear of the front bag without restriction or hindrance. The front and rear bag may restrict lateral movement of the rifle."
If longitudinal movement needs to be specified for some reason, then you might say something like: "The forward rest may be equipped with a front stop to limit forward movement of the rifle. In addition to movement, or resistance to movement, provided by the shooter during the normal course of aiming and firing, neither the front nor rear bag may constrain the rifle's recoil other than by the natural friction of the bags."
I don't suggest in any way that these quick thoughts be adopted as rules. But perhaps they may provide inspiration for someone who knows something about BR shooting.
Raythemanroe
Bullet Whisperer
I wasn't complaining about the rule or the Seb rests, I was just stating that rule was mostly a top topic because of the Seb rests.. Protektor or Edgewood wasn't really the topic now was it? My opinion of the rest or whether it should be used wasn't included, just that the rest or bag that was in the picture I posted was pretty much the reason.. Just saying, no offense..I actually think it is great Seb upgraded his rest and bags and is aware of the sports..
Ray
Ray
If you offended someone, Mozella, it would be Seb. Seb is Indonesian, and tries his best to communicate in the English language. He would probably prefer to communicate in his native language, but I seriously doubt we have anyone on board capable of translating. An apology to him is probably in order. Not only is Seb a site sponsor, but also a supporter of the shooting sports, and quite obviously, a very talented engineer!
Last edited:
Any front bag can trap on any rest, a lot of forearms and ears exceed the 1/2" rule it isn't the fault of the mfg. it is the individual who fails to comply to the rules by not making his equipment legal. I had two Neo's and made them legal to use. So if I can anybody can. The weight of the rest plays a big part weather it is trapping or not….. jim
I met Seb completely by accident , found him and another shade seeker under my hatchback at Raton worlds. Man it was hot , scoot over boys and let me in there. They both looked pathetic and him especially with a long sleeve camo shirt on. Lmao. Dang son aren't you hot in that? I asked his name and told me from Indonesia , ok fine son , I gotta go score. Lol I came back later to dive in the shade and talked further until I figured out what a special person he was. We ignore the humanity of an artist and their mission of perfection.... I think the real shooters can relate to this, when it's your life's work or achievement then it's personal.
Jim, I think your going above and beyond with this for some reason. Or do you have one?
Jim, I think your going above and beyond with this for some reason. Or do you have one?
Last edited:
seb
Site $$ Sponsor
Thank you SIR! My respect here. I will do my homework.
..................
1000 Yard Nationals .... 3-4 Sept. Georgia 1000 yd. Club, Swainsboro, Georgia.
600 Yard Nationals ..... 24-25 September, Big Piney, Summersville, Missouri.
Which match you would be there?
ATB,
seb.
seb
Site $$ Sponsor
Seb or World Open will be July 9th&10th Or web page is www.pa1000yard.com We would love to have you there. Stan we would love to have you there also.
Joe Salt
Joe Salt
seb
Site $$ Sponsor
Before I decide on which match I would come, I have a question to you Jim O'hara and others that don't like the NEO rest (or "think" that it's not comply with the rules): Are you all coming to the match in Georgia next September?
If you don't, can you tell me which match would you come to shoot? The World in July? or the 600 yds in Missouri? Or?
I am asking this question because you are the reason I would come and attend the match.
Thanks in advance,
seb.
If you don't, can you tell me which match would you come to shoot? The World in July? or the 600 yds in Missouri? Or?
I am asking this question because you are the reason I would come and attend the match.
Thanks in advance,
seb.
Last edited:
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.