How to Lower Powder and Primer Prices?

[urbanrifleman]

Eating my lunch and noticing this regular bag of Doritos cost $6.39. It wasn’t to long ago you could buy two for five bucks.

I'm sure there is a "shortage" of Doritos to explain that.

The Great Corn Chip Shortage of 2025.

 

[ebb]

UR that is a very bold statement, the one you made a few pages back. Are you a mind reader, a medium, or a sorcerer? All imports for firearms and components have been cut off from Russia. If the war ends tomorrow and suddenly wolf primers and all of the stuff that used to be available came back, how could that not drive the prices down? Once years ago, I wanted an AR rifle the cheapest was $850, go to PSA and see what the cheapest is today. You are obviously a pretty sharp guy, but you nor I can predict the future. I am pretty sure my Savior doesn't want me even trying.

 

[JFrank]

I’ve decided to take a different route to saving money.

Buy more, shoot less approach seems to be key.

 

[urbanrifleman]

UR that is a very bold statement, the one you made a few pages back. Are you a mind reader, a medium, or a sorcerer? All imports for firearms and components have been cut off from Russia. If the war ends tomorrow and suddenly wolf primers and all of the stuff that used to be available came back, how could that not drive the prices down? Once years ago, I wanted an AR rifle the cheapest was $850, go to PSA and see what the cheapest is today. You are obviously a pretty sharp guy, but you nor I can predict the future. I am pretty sure my Savior doesn't want me even trying.

Jesus told us that we are not to be ignorant of the world and those that control it either. And we are to realize that they are wiser in the ways of the world than us.

I did not "predict the future". That's a bit over the top. I was simply giving my assessment of the market.

If the people that make ammo and components have new customers buying their product. Ones that didn't exist before. Then they have no need to over supply the market for sporting ammo and reloading.

I don't believe that's ever going to happen ever again. Not with the current market ownership in place. I'm certainly allowed as a Christian to predict that the sun will most likely rise tomorrow, and conclude, as Solomon said, there is nothing new under the sun.

 

[ebb]

I am not sure well will ever see super cheap primers and powder again either, but a lot weirder stuff has happened. Gasoline was $3.50 here last summer before Biden needed to be reelected; it came down some in the fall. I truly hope there are enough changes in world events that soon components will be priced lower.

 

[hpshooter]

"the Army's Radford plant is preparing/has started production." The Radford plant has produced nitrocellulose for many years and its production is typically consumed internally. They have made changes in the processing and waste disposal in recent years. It is operated by civilian contractors for the government, Alliant was the last entity to operate it. Hercules operated it at one time, don't know who is running it now.

 

[DShortt]

People love free markets when they work in their favor, and despise them when they don't.

 

[hpshooter]

Does anyone know what percent of the world's smokeless powder production is purchased by re-loaders? I suspect that it is very small and that a purchasing boycott on powder and primers by re-loaders would be a drop in the ocean to the manufactures bottom line. A boycott would certainly be disastrous to those entities that purchase and repackage from the prime manufactures and their distributors but would be a mere annoyance to the primary manufacture.

Something to think about in the overall scheme of things.

 

[jelenko]

very small and that a purchasing boycott on powder and primers by re-loaders would be a drop in the ocean to the manufactures bottom line

Exactly.

According to this estimate, Hodgdon's annual revenue is estimated to be $23million!!!
According to this market analysis, the worldwide market for gun powder is $26.6B.

That makes Hodgdon's worldwide total sales about 1/1000th of the total gun powder market.

From my experience in semiconductor components manufacturing, I would actually prefer to get rid of a customer who represented 1/1000 of my orders. It would increase my profitability by simplifying order intake, backlog management and accounts receivables.

 

[brokeasajoke]

Exactly.

According to this estimate, Hodgdon's annual revenue is estimated to be $23million!!!
According to this market analysis, the worldwide market for gun powder is $26.6B.

That makes Hodgdon's worldwide total sales about 1/1000th of the total gun powder market.

But, does hodgdon sell to military contractors and large scale ammunition makers or do they buy direct from the manufacturers? Honest question. Is hodgdon bloating prices or is it the manufacturers? Is hodgdons revenue solely from reloaders?

 

[jelenko]

But, does hodgdon sell to military contractors and large scale ammunition makers or do they buy direct from the manufacturers? Honest question. Is hodgdon bloating prices or is it the manufacturers? Is hodgdons revenue solely from reloaders?

I'm thinking that at $23M/year, Hodgdon doesn't have any major ammo manufacturing customers - certainly not the military.

The New York Times ran an article that said 5 million people in the US reload their own ammo out of 43 million hunters and sport shooters. Assuming only a quarter of the 5 million [i.e., 1.25 million] actually reload in any given year, each reloader would only have to use $18 worth of gun powder to make up all of Hodgdon's annual sales => seems to indicate the only customers Hodgdon has are individual reloaders. It would be interesting in anyone does know where the major ammo manufacturers get their powder.

Good question on who is raising the prices - Hodgdon or the manufacturers!

 

[brokeasajoke]

If a company can sell half the product for twice as much there is a lot of money made and saved across the whole process of manufacturing to end consumer.

 

[jelenko]

If a company can sell half the product for twice as much there is a lot of money made and saved across the whole process of manufacturing to end consumer.

Actually, it's important to include the cost of goods sold - it's usually much higher for small volume orders.
For example, the 1-10 unit price for our components was around 10 times the price we negotiated with customers with large orders.

 

[Lkwebb]

i have a friend that works at a company that carries powder and primers. If you buy a 100 membership you get free hazmat shipping for aslong as your membership is active.
Not bad if you shoot alot and prices are competitive.

 

[hoz53]

I'm thinking that at $23M/year, Hodgdon doesn't have any major ammo manufacturing customers - certainly not the military.

The New York Times ran an article that said 5 million people in the US reload their own ammo out of 43 million hunters and sport shooters. Assuming only a quarter of the 5 million [i.e., 1.25 million] actually reload in any given year, each reloader would only have to use $18 worth of gun powder to make up all of Hodgdon's annual sales => seems to indicate the only customers Hodgdon has are individual reloaders. It would be interesting in anyone does know where the major ammo manufacturers get their powder.

Good question on who is raising the prices - Hodgdon or the manufacturers!

thats interesting- thanks for that info—. i wonder to go to a major powder manufacturer and try to buy some, how much you would have to buy to get them to pay attention. i wonder who all the powder manufacturers in the world are and how many pounds each produces per year and what is their average sale price per ton. ill try to look it up.

 

[jelenko]

thats interesting- thanks for that info—. i wonder to go to a major powder manufacturer and try to buy some, how much you would have to buy to get them to pay attention. i wonder who all the powder manufacturers in the world are and how many pounds each produces per year and what is their average sale price per ton. ill try to look it up.

That would be very interesting.
SWAG would be the min order is in tons.

 

[hoz53]

That would be very interesting.
SWAG would be the min order is in tons.

i think ur rite on both

 

[Jon Turner]

When I started reloading, a 1000 primers were about 7 bux, a pound of powder was about 8 bux, and a box of bullets was 6-8 bux. How the times have changed.
I retired 5 years ago. I was thinking about all the range time I was gonna' have. Well, I've got the time now, just don't have the unlimited funds for the components. Damn.

Jon

 

[Raydee]

When I started reloading, a 1000 primers were about 7 bux, a pound of powder was about 8 bux, and a box of bullets was 6-8 bux. How the times have changed.
I retired 5 years ago. I was thinking about all the range time I was gonna' have. Well, I've got the time now, just don't have the unlimited funds for the components. Damn.

Jon

I made the switch to PCP air rifles a couple years ago anticipating the fact that these prices are not only here to stay but going up. The initial cost is high for the higher end rifles and equipment but once you have what you need all you need is air and pellets or slugs. When my current supply runs out I will be retiring my powder burners for good.

 

[Abram]

It will cost you a lot of beer.

Danny

It would if I drank but I don't so there is more savings.