F-open rule experts

[Alex Wheeler]

3 points of contact allows for self leveling effect, no rocking of the rear bag. My biggest fight shooting open has been rear bag movement. I come from Benchrest so it is an area I want to work on. If your not used to a solid rear bag it may not bother you.

 

[dkhunt14]

This subject has been discussed over and over, over the years. The rule uses the terms rest and bag over and over but only the front rest or bipod can have spiked feet. The rear rest/bag cannot be mechanical adjusted. Nor, since it is not so stated have spiked feet. So what is left…a rear bag of some design. If you design a three legged bag, make sure it cannot be stuck in the ground or you will be attaching the front and rear together via the ground its self.

International rules (ICFRA) http://www.icfra.co.uk/FC_Rules_2014 Final.pdf
rule F2.7 states the rear may be “ supported by a rear bag “. “The rear bag may not be joined to the front rest/bipod, nor may it be spiked to the ground.”

I take attached as being fastened like in the 22 BR rigs. The ground is not attaching it because the bag can move and it is not mechanically fastened. Matt

 

[dcali]

The only real reason is because it's a perceived advantage. Once everyone has one (which they will very soon if it really IS an advantage), it will be back to a level playing field. Of course, once the playing field is truly level, then there's no longer any need for adjustable legs on the rear bag .

I think there's a Dr. Seuss book about this... Now where is that Sylvester McMonkey McBean? I need a new bag.

 

[Ned Ludd]

I think there's a Dr. Seuss book about this... Now where is that Sylvester McMonkey McBean? I need a new bag.

I only remember Hop on Pop and Star-bellied Sneetches.

 

[dcali]

McBean was the monkey looking entrepreneur who was selling the stars to the sneetches

 

[Alex Wheeler]

McBean was the monkey looking entrepreneur who was selling the stars to the sneetches

Don't like inovation? You shoot a musket I'm sure?

 

[dcali]

I'm just joking around. I'm all for it. Whatever keeps people interested.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I'm not a retailer anyhow. This is for me. If it works you have to make your own

 

[Matt P]

It's a terrible rule, it means your at the mercy of the mounds, If you get a good piece of dirt to use no problem, but if you get the uneven place to lay down you're screwed.
Three rubber stops (non adjustable) screwed to the bottom of the bag should pass.
Matt P

 

[BT1]

Matt, I like your thinking on the 3 short (maybe 1/2" tall) rubber feet. How long do you think they would have to be before someone even notices? I agree, it should pass muster. I did have someone once call me on having 4, 1/4" thick x 1+" dia. rubber pads (stick on). I took them off for a bigger match. Did not want to chance it. Or bring a large mallet to the line and beat the heck out or your shooting position. Then again you may run afoul of some "improving your shooting position" ruling. I have been using a HD moving pad the past 2 years. Works great on grass. It does not slip around like a typical Midway nylon mat. No good in the rain, so I bring both. Like Danny Biggs, I cut an opening in the nylon mat for the bag to set on dirt, hopefully grass.

 

[Immike]

It's a terrible rule, it means your at the mercy of the mounds, If you get a good piece of dirt to use no problem, but if you get the uneven place to lay down you're screwed.
Three rubber stops (non adjustable) screwed to the bottom of the bag should pass.
Matt P

The flat board under the front rest rule needs to allow spikes like the rest it supports is allowed to have. That one just doesn't make sense. If you bolt the 2 together then its legal to have them.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Matt, I like your thinking on the 3 short (maybe 1/2" tall) rubber feet. How long do you think they would have to be before someone even notices? I agree, it should pass muster. I did have someone once call me on having 4, 1/4" thick x 1+" dia. rubber pads (stick on). I took them off for a bigger match. Did not want to chance it. Or bring a large mallet to the line and beat the heck out or your shooting position. Then again you may run afoul of some "improving your shooting position" ruling. I have been using a HD moving pad the past 2 years. Works great on grass. It does not slip around like a typical Midway nylon mat. No good in the rain, so I bring both. Like Danny Biggs, I cut an opening in the nylon mat for the bag to set on dirt, hopefully grass.

It probably won't escape "notice" for long now that you've basically announced that you will intentionally forego the rules on the internet. How many shooters reading this thread would knowingly bring a rifle that didn't meet the weight limit to a match, simply because you knew it wouldn't be weighed? That's pretty much the same thing you're advocating here. Just because a violation may escape notice for some time doesn't make it "ok". To anyone interested in actually playing by the rules, your best bet is to directly contact an NRA official, provide photos/drawings/etc. and get an official ruling in writing (NRA Competitive Shooting Division at 877-672-6282 or CompHelp@nrahq.org.).

 

[Matt P]

It probably won't escape "notice" for long now that you've basically announced that you will intentionally forego the rules on the internet. How many shooters reading this thread would knowingly bring a rifle that didn't meet the weight limit to a match, simply because you knew it wouldn't be weighed? That's pretty much the same thing you're advocating here. Just because a violation may escape notice for some time doesn't make it "ok". To anyone interested in actually playing by the rules, your best bet is to directly contact an NRA official, provide photos/drawings/etc. and get an official ruling in writing (NRA Competitive Shooting Division at 877-672-6282 or CompHelp@nrahq.org.).

My problem with this rule is F Class is meant to be a shooting competition, not who got the good piece of dirt to set up on. By allowing the rest set up to be as good as it can be regardless of the condition of the mound gives no-one "unfair advantage". Unfair advantage gets pulled out every time someone thinks outside the box.
Matt P

 

[Ned Ludd]

My problem with this rule is F Class is meant to be a shooting competition, not who got the good piece of dirt to set up on. By allowing the rest set up to be as good as it can be regardless of the condition of the mound gives no-one "unfair advantage". Unfair advantage gets pulled out every time someone thinks outside the box.
Matt P

To be clear, I personally don't think what is being proposed with the rear rest IS an advantage. However, it does seem to be questionable as far as the rules are actually written. Instead of adopting an attitude of, "I'll try it and see how long I can get away with with", the better course of action is simply to check with someone that can render an official ruling. The difference in intent between those two courses of action is pretty clear.

 

[Matt P]

To be clear, I personally don't think what is being proposed with the rear rest IS an advantage. However, it does seem to be questionable as far as the rules are actually written. Instead of adopting an attitude of, "I'll try it and see how long I can get away with with", the better course of action is simply to check with someone that can render an official ruling. The difference in intent between those two courses of action is pretty clear.

I don't disagree with you but this has been suggested before and a few influential individuals have put a stop to because "in their opinion" it's either not in spirit of the rules or gives an unfair advantage. Like I said earlier it's meant to be a shooting match. Thanks for your input.
Matt P

 

[Alex Wheeler]

It probably won't escape "notice" for long now that you've basically announced that you will intentionally forego the rules on the internet. How many shooters reading this thread would knowingly bring a rifle that didn't meet the weight limit to a match, simply because you knew it wouldn't be weighed? That's pretty much the same thing you're advocating here. Just because a violation may escape notice for some time doesn't make it "ok". To anyone interested in actually playing by the rules, your best bet is to directly contact an NRA official, provide photos/drawings/etc. and get an official ruling in writing (NRA Competitive Shooting Division at 877-672-6282 or CompHelp@nrahq.org.).

Steve attends many national and world matches each year. He does not intentionally forego any rules and I didnt read his post that way. Some of you get so butt hurt over anything new. Dont worry, you not gonna get beat because of a rear bag. F-open is the biggest equipment race in shooting right now, period.

 

[dcali]

What we have here is a conflict between what high power rifle has always been, and just how close F Open has come to being benchrest. When a complaint about a firing point's condition isn't answered with "suck it up, buttercup", are we still shooting high power? OK. Enough philosophizing for me.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Very true. However, f-class is literally Benchrest from the prone. Thats what the rules dictate. 99% the same game IMO. I have shot service rifle. F-class shares almost nothing with high power.

 

[BT1]

It probably won't escape "notice" for long now that you've basically announced that you will intentionally forego the rules on the internet. How many shooters reading this thread would knowingly bring a rifle that didn't meet the weight limit to a match, simply because you knew it wouldn't be weighed? That's pretty much the same thing you're advocating here. Just because a violation may escape notice for some time doesn't make it "ok". To anyone interested in actually playing by the rules, your best bet is to directly contact an NRA official, provide photos/drawings/etc. and get an official ruling in writing (NRA Competitive Shooting Division at 877-672-6282 or CompHelp@nrahq.org.).

I respect your opinions on these issues, but in no way would I knowingly use equipment that was not legal. As stated, I did have some small rubber pads on a rear bag spacer board used to help with the limited range of a front rest elevation issue before switching to a SEB. I immediately took them off, when someone questioned them. No problem. In this thread, I was just following the line of discussion started by Alex asking if a 3 point contact rear bag would be legal for f-class. Having a discussion about a questionable provision in the rules is not a call to try to violate them. Steve

 

[ScottyB]

We shoot on uneven grass all the time at Connaught. It's really amazing the difference a dead bottom underneath the rear bag can make to keep it stable.