Well that is just dandy Norm...
This will disqualify from competing all of us who live in glass houses. Just frickin' fine
. I guess if I can forge an Arkansas ID I can lie about my abode.
2020 NRA F-Class National Championship MATCH DIRECTOR’S BULLETIN #1
- Thread starter Matthew Schwartzkopf
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This will disqualify from competing all of us who live in glass houses. Just frickin' fine. I guess if I can forge an Arkansas ID I can lie about my abode.CharlieNC
Gold $$ Contributor
I agree. But it is humorous to me that a $5 piece of carpet that anyone can buy causes such an uproar.
Warren Dean
Team Savage F-TR
Warren Dean
Team Savage F-TR
Warren Dean
Team Savage F-TR
Warren Dean
Team Savage F-TR
John,
Thank you for injecting some pertinent sanity into this otherwise ridiculous circus of a discussion.
I am the Match Director that initiated the conversations with the NRA and the email was part of a long chain of emails. I do not feel compelled to add any more fuel to this fire Please note that it is well within the purvey of the Match Director to invoke a rule for a competition as long as it is cleared with the NRA and does not rebuke, or is in conflict with an existing rule.
It is my hope that we can come to an agreement on a rule that covers this issue that is more exacting and will create less back and forth. I have seen suggestions that would be better in addressing this issue and would leave less room for subjectiveness on behalf of the observer.
Warren Dean
Team Savage F-TR
In addition to what Stingray said, this issue was brought up to the NRA High Power Committee and was to be discussed and decided on at the April meeting, but COVID hit and the meeting was cancelled. That was unfortunate to say the least.
And to the NRA's credit they decided that a Match Director's Bulletin was the only timely way to get this information out to the shooters. Contrary to what some are saying, the NRA has the best interest of the sport at heart and are curbing what they agreed was a "right on the edge" (my words) innovation that could lead to the spirit of the rules being thwarted. Take a good look at what Walt Walters and John Seigler had to say about it. They know what is actually going on as opposed to speculation and gossip.
The bipod/mat setup in question was not the reason said shooter won. He won with pure skill, plain and simple. Anyone who knows him can attest to the fact that he is an outstanding shooter. But the bipod/mat combo was deemed to be dangerously close to being something that would go beyond the spirit of the rules, so it was shut down. And it was brought to the attention of SWN staff by a person that had nothing to do with any team of any sort.
Maybe if more people would concern themselves with preserving the integrity of the sport, rather than carping about ridiculous nonsense, we could move past this....This sort of crap is why I abandoned Facebook. Too many "Keyboard High Masters" running their mouths and stirring up trouble.
Peace, out.
And to the NRA's credit they decided that a Match Director's Bulletin was the only timely way to get this information out to the shooters. Contrary to what some are saying, the NRA has the best interest of the sport at heart and are curbing what they agreed was a "right on the edge" (my words) innovation that could lead to the spirit of the rules being thwarted. Take a good look at what Walt Walters and John Seigler had to say about it. They know what is actually going on as opposed to speculation and gossip.
The bipod/mat setup in question was not the reason said shooter won. He won with pure skill, plain and simple. Anyone who knows him can attest to the fact that he is an outstanding shooter. But the bipod/mat combo was deemed to be dangerously close to being something that would go beyond the spirit of the rules, so it was shut down. And it was brought to the attention of SWN staff by a person that had nothing to do with any team of any sort.
Maybe if more people would concern themselves with preserving the integrity of the sport, rather than carping about ridiculous nonsense, we could move past this....This sort of crap is why I abandoned Facebook. Too many "Keyboard High Masters" running their mouths and stirring up trouble.
Peace, out.
Baka
Silver $$ Contributor
Or the nascar jerseys!
What would be wrong with reserving the use of “spirit of the rules” to violations of conduct by a person, not inanimate equipment.
Inanimate equipment is regulated by specific rules - which are refined if and when needed, with fair notice and not retroactively.
Spirit of the rules the way we are using it means gear actually complies with the rules, we just don’t like that it does. It also means there is the written rule, and then another silent rule about not getting too “close” to the first rule, and if that logic applied to weight limits we’d all be goners.
I would suggest using it only for conduct that impairs fair competition and is so variable it cannot be listed. For example, if I always pull a target in x seconds, but when a fast, leading shooter is opposite me, I require 3 radio calls to speed up and have to pull it down twice or three times in a string, to redisk a wrong score, or raise challenge-losing scores to slow him down, that violates the spirit of the rules as to my pit duty. That is the type of hard-to-prove unfair competition I believe is the right use spirit of the rules.
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CharlieNC
Gold $$ Contributor
Is there ever discussion about joy stick adjustable bipods? That would seem to be an order of magnitude greater issue regarding spirit of the sport to me.
D-4297
Gold $$ Contributor
I've read every single post since this began ; and I'm starting to feel like I'm in a caucus meeting of a certain political party where more time is spent debating "Semantics" than the actual issue itself . The Match Directive has been published , and the Directive is within the policy of the governing body , and has been approved . PERIOD ! Keeping this going by throwing out semantical debate points serves nothing , and no freakin-body here is in a court-room . All the semantics , whinin and Bitchin isn't going to change a single thing for the up-coming Nationals . It comes down to a very simple issue . Make any necessary adjustments to your current equipment , to come into compliance and participate , or continue on as you have been , with what you are using , and accept what-ever penalty may be imposed . It really isn't all that complicated . It does seem to me that virtually everyone who has a opinion on this has expressed theirs , including many here , with whom this has no relevance , or bearing , have also opined . Personally ; if you shoot in TR , I feel you have a ample right to express a opinion , and rightfully so . It can effect what you are doing . If you don't shoot in TR ; and are expressing your opinion , I feel that's kind of like NHRA Pro Stock Drivers whinin about a Rules change in Top Fuel . Grand-Dad taught me , "If it don't concern you personally , It ain't none of your business". Something to think about ......"The Match Director may"........
Except it IS F-Open’s business, because that’s where they will shoot. There is an F-Open rule that says exactly what the TR Rule says about a tracking bipod.
No mention of that issue in the Bulletin, when it simply says they will be moved. I didn’t see TR addressing that first and no MD would want that rather huge problem cropping up at the very last minute.
There’s never been a situation like this at all. The idea of a division switch for a big group is totally new. Of course it’s going to draw a lot of discussion.
No mention of that issue in the Bulletin, when it simply says they will be moved. I didn’t see TR addressing that first and no MD would want that rather huge problem cropping up at the very last minute.
There’s never been a situation like this at all. The idea of a division switch for a big group is totally new. Of course it’s going to draw a lot of discussion.
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3.4.1.a.2 and 3.4.1.b.2 currently are the same. they're changing b but not a
a will be interpreted as allowing tacking in the material but not existing tracks
the modified b will allow neither
Wow that’s pretty rarified air, but it is better than nothing. Seems like they would just want to remove that sentence from (a). It would appear to mean that if you show up with old tracks in the board you still can’t shoot in Open.
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Remove it altogether and we'd have 'bipods' running in steel 'boards' with perfectly machined grooves with roller bearings in the bottom
Remove it altogether and we'd have 'bipods' running in steel 'boards' with perfectly machined grooves with roller bearings in the bottom
Ok, but how does an old board with some existing grooves get to shoot open with that interpretation?
Can we have bipod wheels? That would be a cool idea. ....CarlRemove it altogether and we'd have 'bipods' running in steel 'boards' with perfectly machined grooves with roller bearings in the bottom
Mind tricks don’t work on me D, only logic.
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