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Considering Three 223 Bolt Guns - Buy vs Build - Recommendations?

mchees1

I am considering buying a 223 bolt gun. (I can probably put one together for around $1600 - $1900 that would be very nice and accurate, but want to see about off-the-shelf options). I want it very accurate out to probably 600 yards. I reload and would like to use some heavier bullets, maybe around 80 grains. 2 of the rifles are magazine fed so cartridge oal might limit using the heavier bullets? One is single shot so cartridge oal is not a limiting factor. Strictly a target rifle use - not carrying it around to hunt.

I am considering:

1) Master Piece Arms BA MPR $1999.99. Guaranteed accuracy of 3/8 moa. I have 2 other MPA rifles and they do easily meet/exceed their accuracy guarantee! 26" barrel, 1:7, M24 contour, Trigger Tech Special, threaded, 20 moa rail. Not sure what bullet they cut the chamber for - haven't asked them yet.

2) Savage 110 Elite Precision. Around $1580 street price. Specs are about the same - different components. Could easily replace the barrel in the future. Have no idea on the chamber specs.

3) Savage 12 F/TR. Around $1280 street price. Single shot, wood stock instead of chassis, 30" barrel that is not threaded. Could get an Orys chassis for $400. Could replace barrel in the future. No idea on chamber specs but single shot should not be an issue with any bullet and oal.

Do any of you have experience with any of these rifles and could give me feedback on your experience with them? If it looks like there will be a dramatic difference in accuracy, I could go ahead and get components and build one. As always, your help is appreciated.
 
If you go the Savage single-shot route I would recommend getting the following instead of a stock Savage 12 F/TR:

- Savage Precision Target Action (same single shot action as the Savage 12 F/TR)
- Stock / chassi of your choice
- Shilen or Criterion prefit barrel

Actions are available at Northland Shooters Supply (also at Bud's Gun Shop):
http://northlandshooterssupply.com/actions/savage/

Barrels are available at Northland Shooters Supply:
http://northlandshooterssupply.com/barrels/shilen-savage/
http://northlandshooterssupply.com/barrels/criterion-savage/

Final cost would be ~ $1,300 assuming your price point of $400 for a chassi. You would also need a barrel nut wrench, a barrel vise or action vise plus headspace gauges, unless you have someone who can spin on the barrel for you.

Stock Savage barrels can shoot well but the odds go up dramatically with a Shilen or Criterion barrel.

If you are wanting a repeater, the Master Piece Arms rifle looks like a nice option.

One thing to keep in mind with the Savages is the trigger options are very limited. There are some 3rd party options (Rifle Basix, Jard) but nothing like the options for a Remington compatible action.
 
Theres a lot of options. Heres another.
Ultimatum barrelled action from Canada. Timney trigger. KRG Bravo, oryx or Whatever decent stock you like,that comes with bedding built in. If it didnt shoot pretty well.. And when or if you need a new barrel, it takes Savage prefits with a barrel nut.
 
Highpower-FClass said:
If you go the Savage single-shot route I would recommend getting the following instead of a stock Savage 12 F/TR:

- Savage Precision Target Action (same single shot action as the Savage 12 F/TR)
- Stock / chassi of your choice
- Shilen or Criterion prefit barrel

Actions are available at Northland Shooters Supply (also at Bud's Gun Shop):
http://northlandshooterssupply.com/actions/savage/

Barrels are available at Northland Shooters Supply:
http://northlandshooterssupply.com/barrels/shilen-savage/
http://northlandshooterssupply.com/barrels/criterion-savage/

Final cost would be ~ $1,300 assuming your price point of $400 for a chassi. You would also need a barrel nut wrench, a barrel vise or action vise plus headspace gauges, unless you have someone who can spin on the barrel for you.

Stock Savage barrels can shoot well but the odds go up dramatically with a Shilen or Criterion barrel.

If you are wanting a repeater, the Master Piece Arms rifle looks like a nice option.

One thing to keep in mind with the Savages is the trigger options are very limited. There are some 3rd party options (Rifle Basix, Jard) but nothing like the options for a Remington compatible action.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I have built a couple of rifles with the Savage Target Action using NSS to get action, barrel, lugs, barrel nut and have had good results. I may end up going that route but want to explore other possibilities since I am becoming more and more lazy!
 
grovey said:
Buy a Tikka, and spend the rest on glass.
Click to expand...
Tikka was the first thing that came to mind when I saw the title . I just pointed a new shooter in that direction . Put a nice scope on it and he is shooting .5" at 200 yards. Not too shabby for his first rifle at age 33 years of age . I know of 3 other Tikkas that do the same or better, mine and my Son's 2 . Everywhere I read I see praise for these fine rifles .
 
Specifications
  1. CZ 527 Varmint MTR, 223 Rem.
  2. CZ 527 Varmint MTR, 6.5 Grendel
CZ 527 VARMINT MTR, 6.5 GRENDEL
Product NameCZ 527 Varmint MTR, 6.5 Grendel
SKU03079
Firearm TypeRifle
PurposeHunting
MSRP$879.00
Chambering6.5 Grendel
Rate Of Twist1:8 in
Magazine Capacity5
Magazine TypeDetachable
StockTurkish Walnut, American-pattern cut for the heavy Varmint barrel
Length Of Pull14 in
SightsNo Sights, Integrated 16mm Scope Bases
BarrelHeavy Cold Hammer Forged
Barrel Length25.6
Weight8.7 lbs
Trigger MechFully Adjustable
SafetyTwo-Position
CZ 527 VARMINT MTR, 223 REM.
Product NameCZ 527 Varmint MTR, 223 Rem.
SKU03078
Firearm TypeRifle
PurposeHunting
MSRP$879.00
Chambering.223 Rem.
Rate Of Twist1:9 in
Magazine Capacity5
Magazine TypeDetachable
StockTurkish Walnut, American-pattern cut for the heavy Varmint barrel
Length Of Pull14 in
SightsNo Sights, Integrated 16mm Scope Bases
BarrelHeavy Cold Hammer Forged
Barrel Length25.6
Weight8.7 lbs
Trigger MechFully Adjustable
SafetyTwo-Position
CZ 527 VARMINT MTR, 6.5 GRENDEL
Product NameCZ 527 Varmint MTR, 6.5 Grendel
SKU03079
Firearm TypeRifle
PurposeHunting
MSRP$879.00
Chambering6.5 Grendel
Rate Of Twist1:8 in
Magazine Capacity5
Magazine TypeDetachable
StockTurkish Walnut, American-pattern cut for the heavy Varmint barrel
Length Of Pull14 in
SightsNo Sights, Integrated 16mm Scope Bases
BarrelHeavy Cold Hammer Forged
Barrel Length25.6
Weight8.7 lbs
Trigger MechFully Adjustable
SafetyTwo-Position
CZ 527 VARMINT MTR, 223 REM.
Product NameCZ 527 Varmint MTR, 223 Rem.
SKU03078
Firearm TypeRifle
PurposeHunting
MSRP$879.00
Chambering.223 Rem.
Rate Of Twist1:9 in
Magazine Capacity5
Magazine TypeDetachable
StockTurkish Walnut, American-pattern cut for the heavy Varmint barrel
Length Of Pull14 in
SightsNo Sights, Integrated 16mm Scope Bases
BarrelHeavy Cold Hammer Forged
Barrel Length25.6
Weight8.7 lbs
Trigger MechFully Adjustable
SafetyTwo-Position
CZ 527 VARMINT MTR, 6.5 GRENDEL
Product NameCZ 527 Varmint MTR, 6.5 Grendel
SKU03079
Firearm TypeRifle
PurposeHunting
MSRP$879.00
Chambering6.5 Grendel
Rate Of Twist1:8 in
Magazine Capacity5
Magazine TypeDetachable
StockTurkish Walnut, American-pattern cut for the heavy Varmint barrel
Length Of Pull14 in
SightsNo Sights, Integrated 16mm Scope Bases
BarrelHeavy Cold Hammer Forged
Barrel Length25.6
Weight8.7 lbs
Trigger MechFully Adjustable
SafetyTwo-Position
 
Has Been said:
Specifications
  1. CZ 527 Varmint MTR, 223 Rem.
  2. CZ 527 Varmint MTR, 6.5 Grendel
CZ 527 VARMINT MTR, 6.5 GRENDEL
Product NameCZ 527 Varmint MTR, 6.5 Grendel
SKU03079
Firearm TypeRifle
PurposeHunting
MSRP$879.00
Chambering6.5 Grendel
Rate Of Twist1:8 in
Magazine Capacity5
Magazine TypeDetachable
StockTurkish Walnut, American-pattern cut for the heavy Varmint barrel
Length Of Pull14 in
SightsNo Sights, Integrated 16mm Scope Bases
BarrelHeavy Cold Hammer Forged
Barrel Length25.6
Weight8.7 lbs
Trigger MechFully Adjustable
SafetyTwo-Position
CZ 527 VARMINT MTR, 223 REM.
Product NameCZ 527 Varmint MTR, 223 Rem.
SKU03078
Firearm TypeRifle
PurposeHunting
MSRP$879.00
Chambering.223 Rem.
Rate Of Twist1:9 in
Magazine Capacity5
Magazine TypeDetachable
StockTurkish Walnut, American-pattern cut for the heavy Varmint barrel
Length Of Pull14 in
SightsNo Sights, Integrated 16mm Scope Bases
BarrelHeavy Cold Hammer Forged
Barrel Length25.6
Weight8.7 lbs
Trigger MechFully Adjustable
SafetyTwo-Position
CZ 527 VARMINT MTR, 6.5 GRENDEL
Product NameCZ 527 Varmint MTR, 6.5 Grendel
SKU03079
Firearm TypeRifle
PurposeHunting
MSRP$879.00
Chambering6.5 Grendel
Rate Of Twist1:8 in
Magazine Capacity5
Magazine TypeDetachable
StockTurkish Walnut, American-pattern cut for the heavy Varmint barrel
Length Of Pull14 in
SightsNo Sights, Integrated 16mm Scope Bases
BarrelHeavy Cold Hammer Forged
Barrel Length25.6
Weight8.7 lbs
Trigger MechFully Adjustable
SafetyTwo-Position
CZ 527 VARMINT MTR, 223 REM.
Product NameCZ 527 Varmint MTR, 223 Rem.
SKU03078
Firearm TypeRifle
PurposeHunting
MSRP$879.00
Chambering.223 Rem.
Rate Of Twist1:9 in
Magazine Capacity5
Magazine TypeDetachable
StockTurkish Walnut, American-pattern cut for the heavy Varmint barrel
Length Of Pull14 in
SightsNo Sights, Integrated 16mm Scope Bases
BarrelHeavy Cold Hammer Forged
Barrel Length25.6
Weight8.7 lbs
Trigger MechFully Adjustable
SafetyTwo-Position
CZ 527 VARMINT MTR, 6.5 GRENDEL
Product NameCZ 527 Varmint MTR, 6.5 Grendel
SKU03079
Firearm TypeRifle
PurposeHunting
MSRP$879.00
Chambering6.5 Grendel
Rate Of Twist1:8 in
Magazine Capacity5
Magazine TypeDetachable
StockTurkish Walnut, American-pattern cut for the heavy Varmint barrel
Length Of Pull14 in
SightsNo Sights, Integrated 16mm Scope Bases
BarrelHeavy Cold Hammer Forged
Barrel Length25.6
Weight8.7 lbs
Trigger MechFully Adjustable
SafetyTwo-Position
Click to expand...
Thanks for the suggestion. I have this same CZ in 22lr and rally like it. Forgot about CZ...
 
Highpower-FClass, NZ_Fclass, grovey, jelenko, onowa, Has Been, and argrendel, thanks for your replies and suggestions. A few new options for me. Now I just have to do a little more research to find out what max oal the various mags can handle, see if I can find info on freebore and twist rates to handle the heavy bullets. So far MPA has sent me info on AICS mags with a max cartridge length of 2.325, freebore of 0.0620, and 1:7 twist. I should be able to get a great rifle no matter which one I end up buying.
Thanks again to the great info from Accurateshooter members!
 
From my notes on factory ammo I see Norma with 77 Sierra MKs @ 2.223" COAL and Federal w/ Sierra 69 MKs @ 2.380" COAL . Just going from memory,but I think the Feds were about max for a Tikka mag .
 
In order to get exactly what suits your wants, I would build a Remage. Particularly when it comes to the stock which best suits your needs, plus improved barrel (twist, length, profile) and trigger.
 
I own several Savages. They shoot well. But I haven't shot them much since becoming violently ill after seeing the tooling marks and chatter ALL THE WAY down the bore.

Buy custom if you can afford it, Tikka or Sauer if you can't.
 
I can't comment of shooting at 600 yards but I'd give some consideration to a Tikka Varmint model. I purchased one (223Rem) in January, not my first Tikka but first varmint model. Wow, this rifle out of the box shoots in the sub 1/2 moa range.

It has an 8" twist so it should handle the heavy bullets for long range shooting. The trigger is terrific. The stock is good enough. I don't know if all of them are like this but mine has a longer throat than the T3X lite model in 223 Rem which helps with the longer bullets.

I'm shooting 60 Vmax behind H4895 with Federal 205M match primers.
 
I am a fan of CZ527 as a compact field rifle, but due to its petite size it is less than ideal for strictly target shooting. This isn't about accuracy of CZ, but rather the footprint is very small making it less than ideal for prone or bench. I would look at a midsize action, REM 700 or similar comparable manufacturer.

Out of the box the Tikka seems to be hard to beat. If you want to build then a Rem 700 clone action is the way to go.
 
See that you're open to suggestions, here goes.

ARC Nucleus action
Savage pre fit
KRG Bravo Chassis
Trigger Tech trigger.
 
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