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62-grain ELD-VT with 9 Twist

Mike in Oregon

Mike in Oregon

Gold $$ Contributor
I had a Ruger No. 1 built, chambered in 22 Creedmoor and we (Gunsmith, Barrel Manufacture and myself) built it around a Hornady 62-grain ELD-VT and decided on a 9 twist with a 26-inch barrel for long-range varminting. A couple days ago I watched a video of an ELD-VT vs V-Max and what the difference behind the designs were. I questioned the twist rate and decided to email Hornady. Hornady said a 9 twist will not stabilize the mention bullet. See video below.

I think Hornady is wrong.


 

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FYI. Hornady's 4DOF calculator says the 62 eld vt is stable at 3200 fps in an 8 twist.

With a 9 twist, the bullet is initially unstable [SG = 1.19] but reaches stability [SG = 1.5] somewhere between 100 and 200 yards.
 
Mike in Oregon said:
I had a Ruger No. 1 built, chambered in 22 Creedmoor and we (Gunsmith, Barrel Manufacture and myself) built it around a Hornady 62-grain ELD-VT and decided on a 9 twist with a 26-inch barrel for long-range varminting. A couple days ago I watched a video of an ELD-VT vs V-Max and what the difference behind the designs were. I questioned the twist rate and decided to email Hornady. Hornady said a 9 twist will not stabilize the mention bullet. See video below.

I think Hornady is wrong.


Click to expand...
I just ran stability in Hornady’s 4DOF with a 9 twist on my rifle that shoots it at 3450fps and its gyroscopic stability is 1.2 which is marginal. Went back to my rifles 8 twist and it’s 1.52. That’s stable.
I’m not telling you that you can’t shoot it at 1.2 but it’s technically not stable. At short range it’s marginal.
 
I've tried them in 2 or 3 different barrels, 8'' twists. None shot them well at all.. Over an inch for sure.. I now have a couple of 7 twist barrels I'm going to try them in. I doubt they'll do well in a 9..
 
So how/why would it shoot a heavier 80-grain ELD shown in picture so well? That group reflects the 3rd, 4th and 5th shot out of that gun. The first two were sighters. I guess we'll just have to wait till load development starts!
 
When using Bergers rwist rate calculator, look at 10 degrees vs 90 degrees.
While changing altitude 0 vs 3000 ft. (Highest in Pa.)

Seems to make a big difference.

The highest altitude in the USA is Denali in Alaska, at 20,310 :D
 
I have to wonder if the stability factor for the 62 VT's has anything to do with the balance point of the projectile. These new VT's have a jacket that is longer than the lead inside of the jacket, shifting the center mass more rearward vs any "normal" bullet. Apparently, from everything I have read lately, (across several websites) the 62's like rpm's. 275k to 325,000 seems to be the sweet spot with guys running them in 22 Creeds. See a lot of 8 twists barrels (60%) and about 40% running 7 twist, but none are running them in 9 twist.
Dan
 
Mike in Oregon said:
So how/why would it shoot a heavier 80-grain ELD shown in picture so well? That group reflects the 3rd, 4th and 5th shot out of that gun. The first two were sighters. I guess we'll just have to wait till load development starts!
Click to expand...
I just ran it again with an 80eld and it’s .98. That’s at 2950 but these are velocities I get from my rifle. Velocity has an effect on stability as does temperature and elevation but nothing is as significant as barrel twist. My gun is a 223AI but the velocity numbers are true to my gun. The 22 creed may go faster but like I say it’s not as significant. You should download the Hornady ballistic app. Nonetheless you have a 9 twist barrel and you’ll need to test loads to see. I had a 9 twist before I had the 8 and 7’s. The 73eld and Barnes 69 match burners shot great in my 9 twist. You need to buy 100 of the 62eldvt to test in your gun. 1.2 is theoretically less favorable than 1.5 but I shot 1.2’s and had good results before I got faster twist barrels. There’s another twist rate calculator that works for ballistic tip bullets like the ELD’s but Hornady’s 4DOF calculator doesn’t align with it. On a different note, Hornady also designed a cartridge/chamber the 22ARC with a free bore so long that it’s designed for AR15 using their secant ogive bullets that have to jump significantly in the chamber and I’ve yet to find any of their secant ogive bullets that shoot well more than 0.007 from the lands. At these seating depths the ammunition won’t fit into the magazine. Mag length cartridges don’t shoot good groups for me so thanks Hornady.
 
urbanrifleman said:
The 62 ELDVT is very touchy. When it works it's awesome. When it doesn't it sucks. This is true.
Click to expand...
This^^^
There are plenty of guys who have built predator rigs with 7 twist barrels, to shoot these 62vt's only to find they can't get them to shoot and now cannot run the lighter weight varmint bullets without backing velo's way down so they don't spin them apart. The on skin performance looks amazing with the 62's, IF you can get them to shoot.
 
dantiff2 said:
This^^^
There are plenty of guys who have built predator rigs with 7 twist barrels, to shoot these 62vt's only to find they can't get them to shoot and now cannot run the lighter weight varmint bullets without backing velo's way down so they don't spin them apart. The on skin performance looks amazing with the 62's, IF you can get them to shoot.
Click to expand...

Well, a 7 twist in 22 Creedmoor is overspun for pretty much every bullet made.

300k spin in 7 twist is 3000 fps. And 3500 in 8 twist. A 22 Creedmoor can easily shoot 62s at 3500 plus.

I'm not sure where people are getting 7 twist recommendations for 22 Creedmoor, but they are not doing anyone a good service.
 
urbanrifleman said:
Well, a 7 twist in 22 Creedmoor is overspun for pretty much every bullet made.

300k spin in 7 twist is 3000 fps. And 3500 in 8 twist. A 22 Creedmoor can easily shoot 62s at 3500 plus.

I'm not sure where people are getting 7 twist recommendations for 22 Creedmoor, but they are not doing anyone a good service.
Click to expand...
You are right! I'm sorry, I'm getting lost in the barrel twist and I should have pointed out that most were using the ARC case and not the Creedmoor with the 62's. There's a few Creedmoor guys running 7's but yes, most are running 8 twist.
Sorry for the confusion.

edit: there are a few guys having great luck with them from 7.5 twist also but anyone that tried in a 9 tw said the results were poor.
Dan
 
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urbanrifleman said:
Well, a 7 twist in 22 Creedmoor is overspun for pretty much every bullet made.

300k spin in 7 twist is 3000 fps. And 3500 in 8 twist. A 22 Creedmoor can easily shoot 62s at 3500 plus.

I'm not sure where people are getting 7 twist recommendations for 22 Creedmoor, but they are not doing anyone a good service.
Click to expand...
Amen.
 
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