I do not agree all shooters I know and I know mannny World Champs to average Joe's have at one time or another in one way or another paid for their education. There is no shame in getting some help. What does it cost you to find your load? How long does it take? What end result do you accept?
1k tune at 100
- Thread starter One Shot One Thrill
- Start date
Raythemanroe
Bullet Whisperer
I'm also not sure I follow the thread correctly. The title says 1k tune @ 100y but than it refers to the testing @ 1k and going back to 100y for a "group".. Where is the magic pill? 10-50 shots @ 1k to tune for 3 shot groups that also shoot @ 100y.. I must be the only person (I assume not) that just sees another salesman in the works.. No offense but where is the magic or is the magic just the $250 bill?
Ray
Ray
So is it ladder test to find node and seating depth to get group kind of deal?
Not criticizing, just asking because I’m too far from OP to be able to learn in person from him.
Not criticizing, just asking because I’m too far from OP to be able to learn in person from him.
Last edited:
Raythemanroe
Bullet Whisperer
Oh don't get me wrong, there is some very seasoned shooter's that could use some outside help. Heck they will buy 10 barrels and get rid of 90% because they didn't mirror the one hummer barrel they had.. Won't change the load or do development, it has to be the same or something is wrong.. Just throw money @ it. Then there are guys that can tune up a 2x4 to shoot and they rarely find a barrel that won't be competitive..
Ray
I read the whole thread through a couple of times and and it seems Eric stated what he was doing in his first post; and then asked if anyone else saw the same thing. It seems quite a few members are so focused on little details and trying to trash Eric's process that they miss what he is saying and doing. And yet, he continues to respond with respect in addressing each post.
He said 1K tune at 100, but he did not say I tune at 100, then go to 1K.
He noted that he has gathered dope for use in his process, and we all know how fast that helps you attain a goal.
I'm guessing he has a lot of dope, but notice that he listed the cartridges he has worked with and one bore diameter
he has not (.284).
He also noted something that no one else has really keyed on - he has both muzzle velocity and terminal velocity
for each shot; which probably gives him a good idea of real world BC, in his dope, in varying conditions.
I haven't read everything that has been posted and written about BC in varying conditions, but it seems very slim.
From the comments he has made, I think he knows what he is doing. But most of all I think he'd probably be a very interesting guy to sit down with and chew the fat with about most anything. If I could I'd stop by just to meet him.
He said 1K tune at 100, but he did not say I tune at 100, then go to 1K.
He noted that he has gathered dope for use in his process, and we all know how fast that helps you attain a goal.
I'm guessing he has a lot of dope, but notice that he listed the cartridges he has worked with and one bore diameter
he has not (.284).
He also noted something that no one else has really keyed on - he has both muzzle velocity and terminal velocity
for each shot; which probably gives him a good idea of real world BC, in his dope, in varying conditions.
I haven't read everything that has been posted and written about BC in varying conditions, but it seems very slim.
From the comments he has made, I think he knows what he is doing. But most of all I think he'd probably be a very interesting guy to sit down with and chew the fat with about most anything. If I could I'd stop by just to meet him.
Alex Wheeler
Site $$ Sponsor
I spoke with Eric and his findings mirror mine exactly. His method is a good one to validate chosen components in 10 shots. I dont think he is saying he can always tune to completion in 10, I may be speaking out of turn though. He is on the right path with this for sure. 3-4" 3 shot groups are my goal with hunting rifles. Because it is do-able. Thats not the same as 5 or 10 shots or agging 3". Back to his question, yes a good 1k tune will still shoot well closer in in my experience. Will it be the best possible tune at 100? Probably not. Will your best 100 yard tune be the best at 1k? For some people it seems to be, not for me but Im still trying!
Raythemanroe
Bullet Whisperer
Raythemanroe
Bullet Whisperer
Say his service was spot on and he did a very respectful job and I got a gun that was lights out a barn burner. How long does that hold up traveling around? Does the service include elevation, humidity/pressure changes? Do I send the gun back under warranty after every couple hundred rounds or whatever the erosion rate may be? I guess what I'm saying is, if you don't know maybe your money would be better spent paying Eric to show you how..
Ray
Ray
Ray,
I'm not sure where you are located but I'm guessing it's not close by. If you ever find your way to Ga I will help you for free. As long as we can post the results good bad or ugly.
If I win the lottery I'll even pay for your trip.
Raythemanroe
Bullet Whisperer
I'll drive down and pay your fee gladly if you can articulate how your "system" will benefit me..
Also, from what I'm reading you should have 12 results to publish.
Ray
Some shooters are not wanting any recognition and I respect their wishes.
I was just offering Southern hospitality. As long as your happy with your results then maybe I can't help you but the offer remains open. You never know mabye you'll get one of those untunable barrels bring it and we'll give it a whirl.
Raythemanroe
Bullet Whisperer
Sure, but to make a trip like that (no offense) I can't just take your word for it.
What I'm hearing is, I got a system that gets results y'all want and if you want it it costs $250.. So far you use experience, quick load and 10-50 rounds powder tuning and testing seating depth correct?
Ray
Raythemanroe
Bullet Whisperer
Raythemanroe
Bullet Whisperer
It could be a good service for guys that buy a gun from a known good gunsmith but just can't get there with it. Okay, maybe at the end of the day if they know how to do it for themselves when said and done.
Ray
Ray
Can I ask which brand of electronic target you are using?
I have read that terminal velocity data wasn't accurate with these E-Targets hence my reluctance to buy one.
I have the SMT
I have heard that as well but mine seem to work well for me.
Interesting thread BTW
Eric I think I understand what you are doing, it's more or less what I have done for years. Tell me if I'm right! I start out by trying different powders, bullets, and primers. first find out how far you can go with the powder and bullet before you hit pressure signs while using a chronograph. Hate hot loads! If the bolt doesn't open with two fingers stay away. Now when you decide on a velocity,
try 10 to see what you find as far as ES. and what they look like on paper. Oh and start out with bullets as a jam that way you only have one way to go with the bullets.
Now go to your local 1000 yard range and make yourself nuts like I have for 40 something years. Like I've always said if it were that easy I would have found something else to make me nuts.
Joe Salt
try 10 to see what you find as far as ES. and what they look like on paper. Oh and start out with bullets as a jam that way you only have one way to go with the bullets.
Now go to your local 1000 yard range and make yourself nuts like I have for 40 something years. Like I've always said if it were that easy I would have found something else to make me nuts.
Joe Salt
Aside from the plethora of info available on this site that specifically discusses load development, here's an excellent article written by a friend of mine, prolly a decade ago?
http://coyotestuff.com/articles/rapid-load-development-strategy/
And, another one, at least as old...
http://coyotestuff.com/articles/ildm-load-testing-aka-ladder-test/
Then, take that knowledge & add in some takeaways from Mr. Cortina's long thread, here. Plus, newer articles on rapid load development, such as this one:
http://www.65guys.com/10-round-load-development-ladder-test/
Then, sprinkle in a bit of user knowledge on a program like Quickload, and it ain't all that hard to get a reloader's attention focused down to maybe 2-3 powders, and a charge weight range that can be covered with short, single shot, incremental ladder testing. With only those few references above, a reloader is well on their way to figure this kinda stuff out...
It's just not that hard to open Quickload & figure out a couple powders to try.
Then, use same to narrow a charge weight range to load & test for pressure...
Course, with all the reloading data for 'common' cartridges all over the inter webs, one could likely do without QL, althogether! But, for wildcatters, QL is a wonderful tool to speed up this part of the process...
So....then ya find OAL to land engagement, with any number of bullets of interest, in any number of ways available.
Then, load said bullets (all jammed) to test,
via single shot ladder,
over a chrono,
with intent of using both recorded muzzle velocities and POI on target,
to figure what is workin' and what ain't...
(there is no voodoo magic required to see what that is, the target don't lie)
Then, when charge weight happiness is found,
via low ES and/or 'flat spots' on POI,
ya can mess with backing off seating depth,
To 'fine tune',
even further,
if ya so desire...
Things are only as hard as we make em. So, if this gent has figgered out a way to market the obvious, then I wish him all the best!
http://coyotestuff.com/articles/rapid-load-development-strategy/
And, another one, at least as old...
http://coyotestuff.com/articles/ildm-load-testing-aka-ladder-test/
Then, take that knowledge & add in some takeaways from Mr. Cortina's long thread, here. Plus, newer articles on rapid load development, such as this one:
http://www.65guys.com/10-round-load-development-ladder-test/
Then, sprinkle in a bit of user knowledge on a program like Quickload, and it ain't all that hard to get a reloader's attention focused down to maybe 2-3 powders, and a charge weight range that can be covered with short, single shot, incremental ladder testing. With only those few references above, a reloader is well on their way to figure this kinda stuff out...
It's just not that hard to open Quickload & figure out a couple powders to try.
Then, use same to narrow a charge weight range to load & test for pressure...
Course, with all the reloading data for 'common' cartridges all over the inter webs, one could likely do without QL, althogether! But, for wildcatters, QL is a wonderful tool to speed up this part of the process...
So....then ya find OAL to land engagement, with any number of bullets of interest, in any number of ways available.
Then, load said bullets (all jammed) to test,
via single shot ladder,
over a chrono,
with intent of using both recorded muzzle velocities and POI on target,
to figure what is workin' and what ain't...
(there is no voodoo magic required to see what that is, the target don't lie)
Then, when charge weight happiness is found,
via low ES and/or 'flat spots' on POI,
ya can mess with backing off seating depth,
To 'fine tune',
even further,
if ya so desire...
Things are only as hard as we make em. So, if this gent has figgered out a way to market the obvious, then I wish him all the best!
6 Pages and im so lost I have no idea if I should buy factory ammo or another Labradar
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