Tuner Test - results confusing

[SG4247]

I can say I learned more from this thread in two days, than I did in the two months prior to buying the tuner.

I appreciate all the responses and plan to perform the tuner test again in .001” increments, along with some more load work.

 

[Ccrider]

Make sure to show us your groups with the rifle in tune at your initial tuner setting. Then we will know your rifle’s potential. Do your load work first.

Don’t expect a tuner to make a rifle shooting .25” shoot better. You should initially tune the rifle to shoot its best, and then use the tuner to keep it in tune.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Make sure to show us your groups with the rifle in tune at your initial tuner setting. Then we will know your rifle’s potential. Do your load work first.

Don’t expect a tuner to make a rifle shooting .25” shoot better. You should initially tune the rifle to shoot its best, and then use the tuner to keep it in tune.

Mostly yes, but I wouldn't limit myself to .250 groups if the gun a and load want to do more...but I think we're mostly in agreement. Not many sub .2 guns out there, in any discipline, really.

 

[jackieschmidt]

Not many sub .2 guns out there, in any discipline, really.

^^^^^^^^

 

[JEFFPPC]

Make sure to show us your groups with the rifle in tune at your initial tuner setting. Then we will know your rifle’s potential. Do your load work first.

Don’t expect a tuner to make a rifle shooting .25” shoot better. You should initially tune the rifle to shoot its best, and then use the tuner to keep it in tune.

Your 100 percent correct but the truth of the matter is many if not most want the tuner to turn their rifle into sub .2. Those unwilling to do the work and test on their own will seldom ever get there. Why are some always up "There" and many seldom get a wiff.

 

[Ccrider]

Mostly yes, but I wouldn't limit myself to .250 groups if the gun a and load want to do more...but I think we're mostly in agreement.

I should have said “only capable” instead of “capable”.

Not many sub .2 guns out there, in any discipline, really.

Interesting. So are you opining that most custom benchrest guns are not sub .25 guns?

Whatever the case, in tune is in tune with or without a tuner. You have to learn how to tune and putting a tuner on and turning it will not get you there. There seems to be a whole lots more to it, starting with learning how to make truly consistent ammo. Easier said than done.

 

[Bill Norris]

Your 100 percent correct but the truth of the matter is many if not most want the tuner to turn their rifle into sub .2. Those unwilling to do the work and test on their own will seldom ever get there. Why are some always up "There" and many seldom get a wiff.

Absolutely Jeff. If the preliminary load development is left undone then the tuner will never be able to tune the load to it's true potential in any rifle.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I should have said “only capable” instead of “capable”.


Interesting. So are you opining that most custom benchrest guns are not sub .25 guns?

Whatever the case, in tune is in tune with or without a tuner. You have to learn how to tune and putting a tuner on and turning it will not get you there. There seems to be a whole lots more to it, starting with learning how to make truly consistent ammo. Easier said than done.

I agree about tune. As for true sub .2 guns...just look at the match reports. They don't score us on a curve based on wind or tune. When every shot is scored, that tells the truth more than anything, IMO. Here's a link to last year's IBS group nats, fwiw. Roughly half the field at .250 or better but only a few sub .2's.

"If I do my part" includes reading wind and keeping the rifle tuned. I'd bet a third of the guns were not tuned to their potential, maybe more than that.

https://internationalbenchrest.com/app/ibs/files-module/local/documents/2022%20IBS%20GROUP%20NATIONALS.pdf

 

[Dave M.]

Here is some load development work and ultimately tuner setting test (on the bottom of the target) conducted on a .284 win. Weather for tuner testing was not ideal (12-15mph from 7-10 o’clock). You can see the phase shift with each subsequent tuner setting. These a three shot groups at 100 yards and I will let the forum evaluate which tuner setting was selected after Mike and I thoroughly discussed this target. Also, I decided that I will shoot this tuner test again in the calmest of conditions to see if the pattern is a tad clearer.


Shoot straight and good luck,
Dave

 

[Fuj]

I'm pickin' 13....

 

[R.Morehouse]

The 1st. 10....

 

[big5ifty]

I cant make heads or tails from this, but as my father said, “somewhere in all this horse poop, is a pony”.

If that were my targets, I would not be able to make any conclusion regarding the tuner, because the group sizes, shapes and placement are not consistent enough to see the changing tuner variable.

There is too much shooter / platform induced 'noise'.

If I were to choose something, it would be the setting at 20, and try that at match distance to see what it looks like on target.

 

[Fuj]

The wave is apparent although shallower then the test pic of Mike's !!
He did mention to shoot this in better conditions, and my decision to
pick 13 was because of it's near perfect round shape and it's sitting on
top the wave. I would however need to see a repeat.

Now a question for both Dave and Mike.....When your test targets were
shot, was there any barrel cleaning involved during the test or was all
shots fired straight forward ?? Dave's Target shows 45 shots. Could one
trust the tuner as the barrel gets dirty ?? Just more to put on the table
and discuss over.

 

[Beiruty]

You should consider the tuning method of AL's. Read the article for your pleasure and knowledge acquisition.
For quick hack, search for "Tune Adjustment Procedure"

Barrel Tuner Analysis -- FEA Dynamic Analysis of Esten's Rifle with/without a Tuner.

 

[JEFFPPC]

Let me repeat, if your using the tuner to find the load your doing it wrong. Tune the rifle lets say until you get repeating groups of .200 or less. At this point try to refine it with the tuner and as rounds go or conditions change learn to use the tuner to stay on top of your tune. In regards to Fujs mention of cleaning, it's sad but true that many are to lazy to keep their barrel clean while trying to time their rifle. And then again if your doing any of the above without flags, you deserve what you end up with. In regards to Fujs idea on 13, yes it's round but lots of times big round I find is hard to make time round. Sometimes it's easier to take bitten row 9 and squeeze it together to a hole by taking the vertical out with powder.......not with the tuner until you establish a tuned load. Too much looking for a shortcut.

 

[Shooter13]

When you guys test over flags, are you making wind corrections prior to each shot ? If so~why ?

Would you make them in a match? This is the very reason when working on load development and tune I pick a day with as little wind as possible.

 

[JFrank]

After all those shots,I don’t see much difference between these two groups.

 

[Tim Singleton]

Is this the thread everyone was talking about being deleted?

 

[JFrank]

Would you make them in a match? This is the very reason when working on load development and tune I pick a day with as little wind as possible.

Of course’ although you can’t pick the weather on match day. I use a flag while tuning but I do NOT correct for wind rather note speed and direction to help interpret the target.
Not to be mis understood~ there are days when we just pack up and call it a day but for the most part we just choose when to shoot and when to just sit there and wait a few minutes.

 

[SSeal]

Is this the thread everyone was talking about being deleted?

No Tim. It was another thread all together. This one is very tame by comparison.