Tuner Test - results confusing

[SG4247]

So, I bought the ECV2 and screwed it onto my 7 Walker Brux f-class rifle.

I had done some load work prior, to get me in the ballpark with powder, seating depth and primers.

Then I loaded up a bunch of rounds as similar as I could make them - and went out with the tuner installed. Shot at 150 yards. Wind 8 mph from my 7 o’clock.

Plan was to test the tuner twice, once per target to try and understand its behavior. The second test target is marked “repeat” and is an exact as I can make it - repeat of the first.

Started with the tuner flush with the adapter face, and screwed the tuner “in” one mark for every 2 shots. The “In” direction is toward the chamber. Made one full revolution each target.

I cant make heads or tails from this, but as my father said, “somewhere in all this horse poop, is a pony”.

Any input is appreciated.

 

[BoydAllen]

I would do a load workup with the tuner installed where you started and then test from there. What kind of flag setup were you shooting over?

 

[Cfshooter]

I have no clue about the rest, but 5 looks good. 0 & 10 are both decent and 5 is solid right in the middle! did you adjust scope? always best to not touch it while testing in that manner so you can see any changes in POI.

 

[jackieschmidt]

Get some flags and do not touch the scope during the test.

Any two groups that repeated within a measurement of 1/4 inch at 150 yards should then be tried with 5 shot groups.

But I say again. Any extreme accuracy shooting performed without flags is not very conclusive.

 

[SG4247]

I only adjusted the scope once - at the very beginning and shot the “0” setting twice.

No flags in this case.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

What do the numbers (0,5,10,etc) represent? If that's one mark, then that's where we need to start looking, first. How many marks in a revolution and how many threads per inch? Also, tuner weight, bbl length and contour, as well as how far beyond/behind the muzzle is the end of the tuner, approximately?

Oh yeah, almost forgot to mention, testing a tuner without flags is pissing straight up a rope. Especially two shot groups! You've absolutely, positively....gotta trust every shot, even with 3 or 5 shot groups. Can't be done in the wind you described...not by me, you or the best in the world.

Coat hangers and surveyor tape beat having nothing. And why 150?

 

[SG4247]

There are 10 marks on the circumference of the tuner. 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40 & 45. So about 36 degrees per mark, on 20 TPI.

Barrel is 28.5” x 1.125” straight profile.

4 oz tuner weight

It’s about 1/2” in front of the muzzle.

Was shooting down in a 150 yard long pit, with berms on the sides. Couldn’t set up flags because of other shooters.

 

[JFrank]

When you guys test over flags, are you making wind corrections prior to each shot ? If so~why ?

 

[Beiruty]

20-25

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

There are 10 marks on the circumference of the tuner. 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40 & 45. So about 36 degrees per mark, on 20 TPI.

Barrel is 28.5” x 1.125” straight profile.

4 oz tuner weight

It’s about 1/2” in front of the muzzle.

Was shooting down in a pit, with berms on the sides. Couldn’t set up flags because of other shooters.

Ok...I think that helps but I'm gonna be careful to not step on Erik's toes. So, based on the parameters you gave, my educated guess is that there will be about .006 tuner travel between all the way in tune to all the way out. That's a very close approximation.

Use a depth micrometer and move the tuner only .001 at at time. Forget the marks. I believe you are moving too much at a time and skipping over sweet spots as well as the other spots, that tell you how and when to adjust the tuner. Three shot groups, 100 yards, flags and a good load, which it looks like you might have. You can't do this in the wind very well, even with flags. So we need to correct that.

That said, there are several groups that show wind in the shape and a few that don't. I'd work a few thou either way of groups that lean up and to the right. With my tuner, that's 2 marks away in virtually every rifle....and ...and this is a biggie....Wind won't make groups form up and to the right from a rh twist bbl!!! Read that again!

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

When you guys test over flags, are you making wind corrections prior to each shot ? If so~why ?

Nope, flags should be used to tell you when...not if, you pulled the trigger at the wrong time, during a tuner test. A test can still be readable if the conditions are known for each shot and every shot goes where it should, relative to the flags. A really good shooter can tell if it went where it should or not and account for that but I wouldn't hold for it during a tuner test. Absolutely no different than load testing, whatsoever

 

[SG4247]

Okay, if one revolution of the tuner moves it .050” and there are 10 divisions per revolution each division is .005” correct?

So, traversing the tuner 001” is a very small amount, even with a depth mic - which I do have.

Start where? At setting 15,20,25?

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Okay, if one revolution of the tuner moves it .050” and there are 10 divisions per revolution each division is .005” correct?

So, traversing the tuner 001” is a very small amount, even with a depth mic - which I do have.

Start where? At setting 15,20,25?

Based on your test, why not start at say 35 and go to 45, give or take. I like where that group landed. Also look at say 23-33

 

[JFrank]

Nope, flags should be used to tell you when...not if, you pulled the trigger at the wrong time, during a tuner test. A test can still be readable if the conditions are known for each shot and every shot goes where it should, relative to the flags. A really good shooter can tell if it went where it should or not and account for that but I wouldn't hold for it during a tuner test. Absolutely no different than load testing, whatsoever

I’m in the same camp, so from the targets the shooter comments a 8 mph wind from 7:00 the impacts without correction should be low right but that’s not what we see here, rather point of impact appears to be shifting quite a bit for only 150 yards. Am I missing something ?

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I’m in the same camp, so from the targets the shooter comments a 8 mph wind from 7:00 the impacts without correction should be low right but that’s not what we see here, rather point of impact appears to be shifting quite a bit for only 150 yards. Am I missing something ?

Yesssss...Some wind and some tune. If judging tune, I pay more attention to groups that wind can't induce.

 

[SG4247]

Yes I though that was odd too!

This is a 20 lb rifle off a SEB rest. Could have been fatigue, but repeated 3X?

I kept bbl temp stable with a cooler also.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Yes I though that was odd too!

This is a 20 lb rifle off a SEB rest. Could have been fatigue, but repeated 3X?

I kept bbl temp stable with a cooler also.

I'm sorry to say, but I don't think you're getting it yet. That stuff is mostly irrellevant.

 

[SG4247]

Here to learn boss.

 

[SG4247]

Here is what 5 shot at 100 prior gave me in load testing a couple weeks prior. No tuner.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Here to learn boss.

It's all good here. I've been thinking about a tuner thread that gives and shows the why's and what for's of moving a tuner, mine specificallly, but that's why I asked about his thread pitch, mark values, etc, in my previous post. Frankly, there's a whole lot of bs out there. Not saying with his tuner but in general. Put it like this....My second and third experience with tuners was with commercially available models of the time. They were similar in construction and design, but instructions were vastly different and both PROVED to be very incorrect when tested stringently. So, I dug out the depth mic. That's what set me on the right path. End of story.