Elk calibers

[Bc'z]

The 150Gr .270 has better SD.

Didn't know elk read load info.
Run a 150 partition, hit em in heart lungs.
You'll be eating good.
As a person that's spent most of his adult life bowhunting. If you can't get closer is it really hunting, or long range target shooting.
I know I'm gonna piss people off but I really dont care at this point.
The freakin Indians used hand made bows with strings made of sinue.
All this talk of killing animals at long distance isn't hunting in my book period.
A person can punch all the paper they want at distance, but quite frankly show the animals some DAMN RESPECT.
Do what it takes to get closer. Or stay home drink beer n watch the hunting channel.
NO I've never killed an elk..
Have I had ass scratching branch bulls whipping the shit out of a poor defenseless tree at under 20 yards and not be able to shoot cuz of cows or brush?
You can bet your bottom dollar on it!!!
I got memories/stories of some truly amazing animals and hunts.
Last thing I want to hear is all the should a, could a, would a's at hunting camp. About lost or wounded animals.
People claim cuz they spend so much on their gear, cost of hunt, time off work, whatever. None of that means shit to me.
Cuz I've spent a fortune.
Learn to hunt, get close, be ethical!!
And yeah this post made my mind up in how I'm gonna chamber this .30cal blank.
30-06AI.
Bring on the hate mail!!!

 

[JFrank]

^^^+1 in spades- Brett's my main man
J

 

[ryanjay11]

Respect for the animal is knowing your limitations, regardless of what you are using.

It would be awesome if bowhunters held themselves to the standards that they put out there for rifle hunters. There are countless dead animals laying in the woods when rifle season starts from poor archery shots, that were probably taken inside 40 yards.

I find it humorous how archery gets interjected into threads that have nothing to do with it whatsoever, almost every single time hunting caliber/bullet/cartridge thread comes up. How ridiculous would it be for me to offer up my rifle cartridge recommendation when someone is asking about what arrows or broadhead to use?

This is not an us vs. them thing, is it? Do you wish they would get rid of rifle season? Be honest.

 

[JFrank]

I'll stay out of this battle

I'm still reading last month hate mail...

 

[Bc'z]

Respect for the animal is knowing your limitations, regardless of what you are using.

It would be awesome if bowhunters held themselves to the standards that they put out there for rifle hunters. There are countless dead animals laying in the woods when rifle season starts from poor archery shots, that were probably taken inside 40 yards.

I find it humorous how archery gets interjected into threads that have nothing to do with it whatsoever, almost every single time hunting caliber/bullet/cartridge thread comes up. How ridiculous would it be for me to offer up my rifle cartridge recommendation when someone is asking about what arrows or broadhead to use?

This is not an us vs. them thing, is it? Do you wish they would get rid of rifle season? Be honest.

Ahhhhhh I think you missed my point.
It's not an argument of archery vs rifle.
My argument is ethics.
So yes there are unethical bow hunters also.
My other argument is, is it truly necessary to shoot at distances with a heavy caliber just because of $ spent, or that once in a life time draw. Those are know reasons for not testing your abilities as a hunter to get closer and make good clean ethical kills. Period!!!!
It's about the hunt, not the kill. The kill is a bonus to the hunt.
I used my archery experience as a reference to being able to close the distance is all.
Just because I can drop arrows into a 2" spot at 70 yards doesn't mean I'd shoot at an animal at that distance.
It's about ethics hunting for the hunt and respecting your prey.

 

[North Fork]

I use a 300 win mag and a 308 and a 6 5 x47 they all work well

 

[dkhunt14]

Ahhhhhh I think you missed my point.
It's not an argument of archery vs rifle.
My argument is ethics.
So yes there are unethical bow hunters also.
My other argument is, is it truly necessary to shoot at distances with a heavy caliber just because of $ spent, or that once in a life time draw. Those are know reasons for not testing your abilities as a hunter to get closer and make good clean ethical kills. Period!!!!
It's about the hunt, not the kill. The kill is a bonus to the hunt.
I used my archery experience as a reference to being able to close the distance is all.
Just because I can drop arrows into a 2" spot at 70 yards doesn't mean I'd shoot at an animal at that distance.
It's about ethics hunting for the hunt and respecting your prey.

How is more ethical to shoot with a bow at 20 yards verses a rifle at 300. I can hold less them 2 inches at 400 yards. Killing is killing, whether its over a bait pile, with a dog, sitting in a blind, over decoys, out of a treestand, or glassing and shooting. Its just your opinion of what you feel is ethical.

Some guys cant hit a 10 inch plate at 50 yards and the next guy can hit one at 3 or 400 yards everytime. Which is more ethical? Matt

 

[JRS]

https://www.chuckhawks.com/elk_cartridges.htm

Takes a couple of minutes to read, but worth the time.
CW

Now google what Chuck Hawks thinks about the 25-06 for hunting elk. Seems he has a hard time deciding what he wants to say about suitable elk cartridges, although he clearly believes the 25-06 will certainly suffice So much for bigger is better.

 

[JFrank]

How is more ethical to shoot with a bow at 20 yards verses a rifle at 300. I can hold less them 2 inches at 400 yards. Killing is killing, whether its over a bait pile, with a dog, sitting in a blind, over decoys, out of a treestand, or glassing and shooting. Its just your opinion of what you feel is ethical.

Some guys cant hit a 10 inch plate at 50 yards and the next guy can hit one at 3 or 400 yards everytime. Which is more ethical? Matt

Matt
Most guys ( not Members) just general public under a pressure situation couldn't hit their butt with both hands. I personally want a clean kill or non at all, I don't enjoy killing any animals big or small and I certainly would not want them to suffer as (edit- I'm fairly certain) you would not either.

I'll let my Boy BC speak for himself.
Much Respect
Jim

 

[JimT]

How is more ethical to shoot with a bow at 20 yards verses a rifle at 300. I can hold less them 2 inches at 400 yards. Killing is killing, whether its over a bait pile, with a dog, sitting in a blind, over decoys, out of a treestand, or glassing and shooting. Its just your opinion of what you feel is ethical.

Some guys cant hit a 10 inch plate at 50 yards and the next guy can hit one at 3 or 400 yards everytime. Which is more ethical? Matt

Matt, as I have said in the past, I know and respect your accomplishments in benchrest! Could you explain the specifics and conditions you are referring to when you say “ I can hold less than 2 inches at 400 yards?”

 

[Bc'z]

How is more ethical to shoot with a bow at 20 yards verses a rifle at 300. I can hold less them 2 inches at 400 yards. Killing is killing, whether its over a bait pile, with a dog, sitting in a blind, over decoys, out of a treestand, or glassing and shooting. Its just your opinion of what you feel is ethical.

Some guys cant hit a 10 inch plate at 50 yards and the next guy can hit one at 3 or 400 yards everytime. Which is more ethical? Matt

Yes sir my opinion. And yes killing is killing.
The OP'S question was about lighter/medium calibers. Somewhere in the thread folks start talking bout the need for larger overbore heavy calibers, to the point anything else is under powered.
So ask yourselves this.
What did people kill elk with before the magnums hit the scene? Hense why I mentioned the Indians and their equipment.
Or me and my desire to hunt with a bow.
My point is as stated. Good hard hunting and ethical shots.
Now back to the ass scratching bull @20.
Could I have shot the cow standing @18?
Sure. Would have it been ethically sound?
No. What happens to the bull standing behind the cow when and if arrow was to pass through?
Besides the fact I wasn't there to get a cow.

I never set out to question anybody's shooting ability.
But I do question caliber choices.
And I am a firm believer in delivering as much energy as possible.

My original post on this thread was why a different caliber for bulls vs cows.
We are talking bout the difference of a couple hundred pounds on the same species, not dangerous game.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Reading comprehension needs some work in this thread. No where have I read anyone say that any caliber or even a sharp stick cant kill an elk. What those experienced elk hunters are trying to get across is that elk are tougher than most other animals, have very tough shoulder bones on big bulls, and larger calibers will do the job when you hit those heavy bone when smaller calibers may fail. Making the argument that a cave man can kill an elk with a stick does not mean a 130 grain bullet will penetrate a bulls shoulder blade at 600 yards. So far as shot placement being important, that goes without saying, but most of us have made a less than perfect shot in the field. I think this topic gets emotional because most of us have seen some nasty stuff that a larger caliber would have prevented. No cartridge can fix a gut shot, but a bigger one can fix a shoulder shot.

 

[Rick in Oregon]

Interesting, and lots of experience in this post.

For me, it's a pre-'64 M70 rebarreled to 338-06 Ackley shooting 210gr Partitions. I've learned over the years as Alex noted above, is that for big bulls, big bullets are much preferred over lighter, faster offerings. I've never lost a bull since shooting my ".34 Thumper". Elmer Keith had it right a long time ago.

 

[JFrank]

Here's an interesting side note just to stir the pot.
Men have ethics animals do not they kill without remorse some kill for food others for territory or domination.
I wonder how many animals die of old age.

 

[dkhunt14]

Matt, as I have said in the past, I know and respect your accomplishments in benchrest! Could you explain the specifics and conditions you are referring to when you say “ I can hold less than 3 inches at 400 yards?”

I am talking with a good prop. My carry hunting gun is not factory. It is a 30-338 with a custom barrel. It is a good shooter and I worked on loads alot. I shoot 180 grain Ballistic tips. If not walking far, I use a 17 pound 308 Baer with 210 Bergers. Matt

 

[seymour fish]

Reading comprehension needs some work in this thread. No where have I read anyone say that any caliber or even a sharp stick cant kill an elk. What those experienced elk hunters are trying to get across is that elk are tougher than most other animals, have very tough shoulder bones on big bulls, and larger calibers will do the job when you hit those heavy bone when smaller calibers may fail. Making the argument that a cave man can kill an elk with a stick does not mean a 130 grain bullet will penetrate a bulls shoulder blade at 600 yards. So far as shot placement being important, that goes without saying, but most of us have made a less than perfect shot in the field. I think this topic gets emotional because most of us have seen some nasty stuff that a larger caliber would have prevented. No cartridge can fix a gut shot, but a bigger one can fix a shoulder shot.

It seems to me the physiological state of the animal is critical. Totally relaxed = DRT with any well placed shot with adequate cal and good bullet. Spooked = you better hit the CNS. Think high lung shot which is likely to frag the spinal cord. Poorly hit = massive Adrenaline dump =very difficult to deliberately hit the CNS on a running animal thus breaking it down becomes viable option. The speed with which follow up shots can be delivered is critical, the position seldom steady. You are now in shotgun mode, and the rifle needs to be balanced, the eye centering on the scope automatically. If the initial follow up shot fails and opportunity lost, you will likely need to sprint a few hundred yards at altitude, and shoot again at max heart rate. A hierarchy of ethics can be constructed. How much gun you can handle and shoot well in all these conditions is at the top, and assumes you are in top condition and have practiced from odd positions and on Movers. Leads and holdovers need to be automatic.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

www.rmef.org

Read what they say about hunting elk.

Is that a good organization or more of a elite group that’s going to be bad for the regular hunter? I’m seriously asking. I went to the National Finals Rodeo in Vegas several years ago, RMEF had a big booth in the convention center. They were selling high dollar raffle tickets for different guns, kinda left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[wupterchook]

It's all about shot placement.

For me and my immediate family (wife and 2 daughters) we've used the following.

.243. 4 cows 1 small bull
6.5 X55 2 cows
7mm-08 2 bulls
.30-06. 1 bull

Most were taken with Barnes X bullet a couple with Berger.

I'll add that we've also used a .243 and a 6.5X55 on Oryx without problems.

 

[JimT]

I am talking with a good prop. My carry hunting gun is not factory. It is a 30-338 with a custom barrel. It is a good shooter and I worked on loads alot. I shoot 180 grain Ballistic tips. If not walking far, I use a 17 pound 308 Baer with 210 Bergers. Matt

Oops, typo on that. You said 2 inches at 400 yards.

Read the warnings at the link below, I think we just started our 3rd season.

https://forecast.weather.gov/showsigwx.php?warnzone=COZ010&warncounty=COC037&firewxzone=COZ205&local_place1=Vail CO&product1=Hazardous+Weather+Outlook&lat=39.6453&lon=-106.3862

Just wondering what your hold would be in these weather conditions after climbing a modest 2000 feet in elevation and using a “good prop.”

My point is, elk “hunting conditions” are rarely “flatland eastern shooting conditions” and this rarely is taken into account in these discussions.

 

[Mulligan]

Just something to ponder

If you hunt elk with a 100gr .243 bullet and you shoot a 700 lb bull elk that is the equivalent of hunting a:
300 lb deer with a 43 gr bullet
25 lb coyote with a 3.6 gr. bullet
A 12 lb fox with a 1.7 gr bullet.

A bit on the small side no matter how you look at it.

Obviously it is not as easy as comparing body weight with bullet weight but most of you will get the point.

There are not that many small caliber bullets designed for large heavy game.

Parts of this thread are painful to read.
CW