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Why doesn't Hornady make match grade bullets capable of competing with Berger bullets?

Hmmm. Looks like PRS competitors don't know they weren't shooting matches. From Precision Rifle Blog:
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That discipline only requires you to hit a plate at a given distance, whether its an edge or the center it doesn't matter you still get the point, it's a whole different animal and what makes the cut for PRS doesn't make the cut for F-Class let alone BR. :cool:
 
Funny thread with lots of Hornady bashing, some deserved some not. I use Hornady bullets and they shoot fine, are they Bergers no but for the price and availability Hornady makes an outstanding bullet.

The claims that Hornady cannot make a match bullet or a bullet that compares with Bergers is ridiculous and maybe one day they will. Hornady as a company is there to market and sell their product to make a profit and it appears that they are very very good at it.


If someone can take a stab at explaining how I can unravel 30 caliber, 250 grain long-range-only target bullets shot intentionally slowly, in some of the gentlest, most exceptionally made barrels, but have never exploded a single smaller caliber 110, spun at a faster twist rate and higher velocity, when it is traditionally the smaller, lighter bullets that sometimes have this propensity, I’m all ears.

It’s not as if Hornady doesn’t do a good job when making them big. I’ve shot the 750 A-Max since about 2003 when I bought an AR-50. It’s why I embraced the A-Tip line when they were introduced. That bullet, without a lot of publicity, likely holds all or nearly ALL the distance records in combat since the second Gulf War, and in factory loaded form from Hornady no less.
 
My point is everything is not benchrest. I compete in 'cross the course' - many use Hornady. Are they not shooting in matches?
Yes but the question in the OP was
"With the size and breadth of Hornady's research and production, why don't they produce match grade bullets that are capable of competing with Berger bullets? Like benchrest, F Class, world record class bullets."
We know they make bullets that can be used in disciplines that don't require the accuracy and precision that F-Class and BR require, but that was not the question.
 
With the size and breadth of Hornady's research and production, why don't they produce match grade bullets that are capable of competing with Berger bullets? Like benchrest, F Class, world record class bullets.

Seems Hornady's engineers and ballisticians etc enjoy talking the talk, but they can't walk the walk.

Let's not even mention brass quality.
I think that if you look at the equipment list for any SR bench rest match that attracts the top shooter they all use custom made bullets. From what I read stuff like Bergers may be used for long range matches.
 
Hornady 6mm 105gr HPBT Match shoots spot on with Bergers of the same weight…
I generally shoot just Berger 108’s in my Dasher for F Class. But, I bought a box of their 105’s to test for 300 yard matches. They are reasonably priced, seem to have a longer bearing surface and their BC is just a few points shy of the Berger’s. Initially tests at 100 yards are mostly in the 1’s and 2’s. More testing is planned, but if they perform at 300 and 600 I’ll use them. Actually, a pretty nice bullet.
 
If someone can take a stab at explaining how I can unravel 30 caliber, 250 grain long-range-only target bullets shot intentionally slowly, in some of the gentlest, most exceptionally made barrels, but have never exploded a single smaller caliber 110, spun at a faster twist rate and higher velocity, when it is traditionally the smaller, lighter bullets that sometimes have this propensity, I’m all ears.

It’s not as if Hornady doesn’t do a good job when making them big. I’ve shot the 750 A-Max since about 2003 when I bought an AR-50. It’s why I embraced the A-Tip line when they were introduced. That bullet, without a lot of publicity, likely holds all or nearly ALL the distance records in combat since the second Gulf War, and in factory loaded form from Hornady no less.
Physics is a bitch.
 
Yes but the question in the OP was
"With the size and breadth of Hornady's research and production, why don't they produce match grade bullets that are capable of competing with Berger bullets? Like benchrest, F Class, world record class bullets."
We know they make bullets that can be used in disciplines that don't require the accuracy and precision that F-Class and BR require, but that was not the question.
Great point.
Sorry for going off topic.
 
Hornady targets the normies as I call them, you know the ones that think the 6.5 Creedmoor is the end all of long range shooting and if they have one they are capable of first round hits out to 1k or better. They outnumber us precision match shooters 10:1 probably more but whatever, so in their game Hornady has produced this mantra (for lack of a better word) that their products are the absolute best, and to them they might be but for us few that know better they are junk. For instance.... Let's talk deer hunting for a min. I've got several friends that have tracking dogs that will find wounded deer, it's a huge thing down here unfortunately. Anyone want to guess the cartridge and bullet combo most of these tracks are the result of?
 
Hornady targets the normies as I call them, you know the ones that think the 6.5 Creedmoor is the end all of long range shooting and if they have one they are capable of first round hits out to 1k or better. They outnumber us precision match shooters 10:1 probably more but whatever, so in their game Hornady has produced this mantra (for lack of a better word) that their products are the absolute best, and to them they might be but for us few that know better they are junk.

Please post where they say their products are the absolute best?
 
Hornady targets the normies as I call them, you know the ones that think the 6.5 Creedmoor is the end all of long range shooting and if they have one they are capable of first round hits out to 1k or better. They outnumber us precision match shooters 10:1 probably more but whatever, so in their game Hornady has produced this mantra (for lack of a better word) that their products are the absolute best, and to them they might be but for us few that know better they are junk. For instance.... Let's talk deer hunting for a min. I've got several friends that have tracking dogs that will find wounded deer, it's a huge thing down here unfortunately. Anyone want to guess the cartridge and bullet combo most of these tracks are the result of?
Probably 6.5 CM, the most popular deer round lately. But... these tracks aren't usually the results of any "cartridge and bullet combo". It's usually the result of poor marksmanship or taking chancy shots. One of our group uses Hornady bullets in his .25-06 for years now and we've yet to need a tracking dog. Maybe these friends need big magnums where you can supposedly hit 'em anywhere and kill 'em dead. We have some of those guys in our neck of the woods too -- they only shoot sighting in their rifles just before deer season (some don't even do that). Most are lucky to hit the deer anywhere. Guys who shoot year 'round rarely have need for tracking dogs. No personal offense meant to your friends, just how it usually happens.
 
Hornady targets the normies as I call them, you know the ones that think the 6.5 Creedmoor is the end all of long range shooting and if they have one they are capable of first round hits out to 1k or better. They outnumber us precision match shooters 10:1 probably more but whatever, so in their game Hornady has produced this mantra (for lack of a better word) that their products are the absolute best, and to them they might be but for us few that know better they are junk. For instance.... Let's talk deer hunting for a min. I've got several friends that have tracking dogs that will find wounded deer, it's a huge thing down here unfortunately. Anyone want to guess the cartridge and bullet combo most of these tracks are the result of?
But think of how many have jump in with this caliber and bought a scope with tactical turrets to learn how to shoot longer ranges. It’s been totally a plus for this sport, and probably a stepping stone to a custom build and another caliber.
 
But think of how many have jump in with this caliber and bought a scope with tactical turrets to learn how to shoot longer ranges. It’s been totally a plus for this sport, and probably a stepping stone to a custom build and another caliber.
i think of this often when someone tells me their shooting their 6.5 MB— im not gonna buy one but if its helping increase shooting participation more power to it i say
 
But think of how many have jump in with this caliber and bought a scope with tactical turrets to learn how to shoot longer ranges. It’s been totally a plus for this sport, and probably a stepping stone to a custom build and another caliber.
a plus for the participation in the sport and mabie new shooters that wouldnt of bin shooters but these people are being sold a bill of goods and have taken it hook line and sinker in many cases.
 
Look at the origins of both companies, Joyce Hornady wanted to create a better hunting bullet and Walt Berger was a known benchrest competitor. That should be hint one. Anything more IMHO you need to talk with the company leadership but seems to me they have both carved out a market.
 
Who shooting benchrest or for that matter on this forum shoots factory loaded ammo?
Wayne
Not to mention how many benchrest shooters are shooting "factory" bullets vs. using the purpose built bullets in the benchrest boutique market or even swaging their own at home.
The supply and demand of J-4 jackets is an indicator of how many of those dedicated benchrest bullet makers there are. They stocked by few suppliers and are seldom in stock!
 
With the size and breadth of Hornady's research and production, why don't they produce match grade bullets that are capable of competing with Berger bullets? Like benchrest, F Class, world record class bullets.

Seems Hornady's engineers and ballisticians etc enjoy talking the talk, but they can't walk the walk.

Let's not even mention brass quality.
Its been an enjoyable fun thread to read through. I really wouldnt want berger in competion with hornady though. Berger has their niche and makes high quality bullets a certain group of people buy and are willing to pay for. their emphasis is quality -i wouldnt want to see them cut the quality to compete with a volume manufacturer. Hornady has their area and are very successful in it. its more of a high volume less quality business plan. how about more bullet companies instead of fewer bigger ones..if anything how bout Berger doubles their production.
 
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