Why doesn't Hornady make match grade bullets capable of competing with Berger bullets?

[FireFoot]

Well, I'm pretty sure there are lots of Hornady bullets used in PRS, F Class and 'cross the course' matches to very good effect.

If by 'match grade' you mean 'benchrest', I'm not sure what Hornady thinks. But, if they've got a solid marketing group, they will know that their bullets are not used in benchrest.

Why would Hornady want to make benchrest bullets that no one will use? The vast majority of benchrest shooters use custom made bullets so there is no market for them to capture.

 

[FrankG]

Hornady's bullets are just as capable as any of these.

A few years ago US Army tested 26 different 6.5mm bullets. All our barrels. All testing was done at a 1k yards or 1200 yards. Forget which. Anyways in they're exact words... no bullet or brand flat out shot better than another. The ELDMs had no bullet failures etc... and shot just as good as any of the Bergers. Period. No Atips where around when that test was run.

If any of you are following the 7/6.5PRC testing thread that we made an ammunition pressure test barrel for.... I will state again right here.

When the 180 Bergers, 183SMK and the 190ATIPs where tested with the N555 powder.... the difference in accuracy between them was +/-.060". That doesn't mean anything. Neither bullet flat out shot better than the other. All 10 shot groups. No load tuning or seating depth adjustments where made etc... all bullets regardless of the bullets/or brand I seated them to .020" off the lands.

It basically comes down to bullet, powder and barrel. These three things have to work together and what it amounts to is tuning. Just because a given recipe doesn't shoot good doesn't mean the bullet is flat out bad or the barrel or powder is bad.... you just haven't found the load/tune for it.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[Bottom Fodder]

^^^^^^ thank you sir good write up from some who should know

 

[rardoin]

^ Except the A-Tips by Hornady. Here, Ford is making the F-150 and also the mid six figure GT track car.

Agree... with the reliability of a 1980's F1 race engine. Like one of those high HP, low displacement, highly stressed engines from the past, the driver was always waiting for the other 'shoe to drop'. You never know when the A-tip would pitch a wide elevation/corner 9 or 8. The Berger 180/184 hybrids are like a modern Porsche GT3 cup car engine.... not the highest horsepower but rarely would does the engine/drivetrain do anything unexpected.

 

[FrankG]

^^^^^^ thank you sir good write up from some who should know

Thanks and your welcome!

I'll add this also as an example....

One bullet maker testing 30-06 ammo in a new test barrel we made them. It was hunting ammo. Not match bullets. The old load with the same bullets shot in the .8moa range. Same load in the new barrel was shooting like 1.1"moa. Couldn't get the groups any smaller than that. The ballistic lab guy knew it wasn't the barrel.

He changed the type of powder and bingo.... same bullets go back to shooting in the .8moa range.

Same place and some of the guys there shoot F class and FTR as well.... the one guy gets a new barrel from us and puts it on his gun. Again keeps the same caliber... 284win. It would tease him accuracy was good but would get a flier once in a while for no reason... one of the guys said... try some H4350 instead of the H4831sc and see what happens.... no more fliers and the thing went to shooting stupid small groups. He won matches with that load and barrel etc...

In that test that's being run with the 7/6.5PRC it is interesting to see the accuracy change better or worse when you change the powder charge by say a .5 a grain as well. Same bullet, same powder, same primers and same lot of cases. Just the powder charge was different.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Does Sierra bullets make match bullets?

 

[davidjoe]

Does Sierra bullets make match bullets?

Sierra Match King does ring a bell, right .

 

[urbanrifleman]

Sierra Match King does ring a bell, right .

Well, if that's the case then I've shot lots of Hornady bullets recently that will shoot as well or better than Sierra bullets.

 

[6.5 forever]

Well, if that's the case then I've shot lots of Hornady bullets recently that will shoot as well or better than Sierra bullets.

Good deal. I stopped using Hornady ELDM from my own experience of bullet blown up and personally watching several others failures. I had shot over 6k and said I wouldn't stop unless I had problems.....

I've shot more SMK than 6k since without a blow up.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Good deal. I stopped using Hornady ELDM from my own experience of bullet blown up and personally watching several others failures. I had shot over 6k and said I wouldn't stop unless I had problems.....

I've shot more SMK than 6k since without a blow up.

Sounds like you might be overspinning. But I don't know. Sierra match bullets do have thicker jackets but that is no reflection on quality. Which wouldn't change what I said.

 

[6.5 forever]

Sounds like you might be overspinning. But I don't know. Sierra match bullets do have thicker jackets but that is no reflection on quality. Which wouldn't change what I said.

8 twist 2770 fps... over spinning?
And it won't change what I shoot either

 

[urbanrifleman]

8 twist 2770 fps... over spinning?
And it won't change what I shoot either

Sierra match bullets typically have thicker jackets.

I've made a lot of barrels in three years. I've never had a customer tell me they had a jacket failure with one of my barrels. Even over spinning. I am thinking jacket failures has something to do with the barrel. But I don't know that for a fact.

 

[JLT]

I'm not among those that criticize Hornady's bullets or their business model. As a company, they've developed a healthy, growing and expanding business. I find the hype around the Creedmoor chamberings beyond irritating but they definitely rang the bell with them. In truth, the CMs are fine designs with a lot going for them. I *might* switch to the .22 Creedmoor from the .22-.250 AI at some point in the future, just to eliminate fire forming and brass availability issues. Don't know if I can get past my bias, but I just might.

With respect to their bullets, I think the 53 gr. VMax is king of the hill for varmint and predator applications. I've shot thousands of them from several different lots in .223 and .22-.250 AI and I have nothing but praise for their precision, ballistics and terminal performance. I've pushed them stupid-fast out of the .22-.250 AI and haven't had one come apart yet. The 105 gr. HPBT Match will never win the BC sweepstakes, but the darned things shoot very consistently. I've shot many club mid-range matches with them without a single 'WTH' on target. I've also shot the 108 ELD-M at mid-range with results similar to Berger VLD Targets and Hybrids. The only 6mm bullet I've had fail at 600 was a Berger Hybrid, by the way. It made it to the target, but it was coming apart and a big piece landed in the 6-ring. Wasn't the shooter that day. My score for that match was a 196-17X.

My go-to hunting bullet for my 7mm-08 is the 139 gr. Hornady BTSP. That bullet has been around for a looong time, but it still fills the freezer. I could spend four or five times as much for another 7mm hunting bullet in its class, but I'm sure that neither I nor the deer will ever notice a difference. I can go get that rifle out of the safe right now, take it to the range and know the first two shots from a cold bore will be an inch and a half high at a hundred and the holes will be touching. Not a match bullet, but they shoot.

I could go on, as I have quite a few red bullet boxes on the shelf, from soft point varmint bullets through the A-Tips in two calibers. Oh, their dies aren't half bad, and I use Hornady Unique case lube for all my resizing. Their stuff performs and it is reasonably priced. I'm going to give them credit where credit is due. They've earned it.