Why doesn't Hornady make match grade bullets capable of competing with Berger bullets?

[bpm990d]

Maybe Hornady as a company are like Service Rifle shooters, and they don't give a shit about pretentious people that shoot from benches or $1K rests.

 

[hoz53]

I think Hodgdon was the buyer of RCBS.

oh ur prob rite bill thanks

 

[Fclassfool]

Maybe Hornady as a company are like Service Rifle shooters, and they don't give a shit about pretentious people that shoot from benches or $1K rests.

I know service rifle shooters that won't shoot hornady trash so....

 

[hoz53]

It may all be about marketing. Right now, Hornady seems to have many accurate bullets that sell for less than Bergers and they are able to mass produce them at a rate that they keep on coming. Berger is "out-of-stock" all the time. So, trying to produce a bullet equal to or better than a Berger might just not make marketing sense for Hornady.

i seem to find a steady supply of Bergers that will work for me. i shoot them for one reason. because for me they are the most accurate. if hornady makes bullets i can use that are just as or more accurate than bergers for less $ Id like to know about it.

 

[jghoghunter]

Maybe Hornady as a company are like Service Rifle shooters, and they don't give a shit about pretentious people that shoot from benches or $1K rests.

A jackass statement like that gets you on the ignore list before the boss tells me "I can't do that"!

 

[bozo699]

i seem to find a steady supply of Bergers that will work for me. i shoot them for one reason. because for me they are the most accurate. if hornady makes bullets i can use that are just as or more accurate than bergers for less $ Id like to know about it.

Hoz,
Don’t stay up late waiting for a reply……
Wayne

 

[Bill Norris]

Hoz,
Don’t stay up late waiting for a reply……
Wayne

^^^^^^^ Agree.

 

[davidjoe]

I have a theory on the subject based on extensive use of A-Tips in multiple calibers.

Hornady doesn’t do enough testing through hot barrels. It’s as simple as that. It is fairly widely acknowledged that their bullets are at the easier end of the spectrum to blow up.

However I’m going to assert that blowups are merely the most extreme manifestation of heat induced inaccuracy, and that 8 and 9 ring point drops with good calls have perturbed shooters. Combine that sensitivity with US style string shooting in F-Class, and avoidance results.

My posts have covered the fact that I have blown up 250’s in F-Open in multiple of my 300 Win Mags. Reading deeper, I have been frustrated with fliers that I believe are damaged from heat but still hit the target.

Several F-Class guys shot thousands of 190’s. The main issue with the 190’s was not blowups, if there were any, but lower aggregate scores and more finicky loading requirements than Berger hybrids.

On blowups I’m going to say that with E -Targets sometimes missing shots, and A-Tips following E-Targets, I do personally suspect strongly that I have vaporized several 190’s, but E-Targets make this almost impossible to ascertain when TR shooters also get no reads.

That I have blown up many 250’s is beyond speculation. Worst case, I had a M, One on, in a two sighter string in February. Then about 9 more in that same string. I’ll have strings where my now-coated bullets and alcohol sprayers keep them all intact but it’s by no means guaranteed there won’t be a no-read. I’m honestly getting tired of potential blowups distracting me.

Hornady hardly acknowledges the existence of F-Class. It is CLEAR that the podcast crew does not partake in our expensive specialized gear personally, and that the company has not bought any, itself, to test with. It’s as if they know that PRS is a better use of their high BC A-Tips because of the low round count, and the screaming BC’s benefits to the shooter when there are no sighters.

It does not help A-Tips that wind has generally been milder over the last 5 years at big LR matches than the 5 years prior to those. I’m invested in A-Tips likely in similar quantities to the two or three largest distributors - combined, and I’m 100% positive that no one at Hornady has shot as many as I have. I could shoot A-Tips at this rate from 52, to 95 without ever buying any more bullets, but I’m running out of hat tricks to try. I could down load them, hope for accuracy and longevity, and try to makeup the difference in better wind calls, but that’s really a last resort.

Hornady, we know that your bullets can shoot small. Until the 1,000 yards, probably everyone here has been beaten by Hornady bullets at one time or another in matches. You are doing a lot right.

But even manufacturers apparently don’t like to be wasteful in times where barrels, powder, man-hours and high-end bullets are ALL expensive, when and if available, but good golly Hornady, I will REVERSE sponsor your A-Tips by letting YOU guys field test them, (all the youth in ballistics there that I get the impression could fit all their guns in one car), in LR string matches under the sun in Phoenix with my Bartlein 5R barrels, in the annoyingly specialized and otherwise useless single shot F-Open gear, and see what you think.

Before the worlds in 2013 when the US F-Open team considered fielding only magnum versions of 7’s, they first shot them abusively to see just what it might take to blow up 180’s, and obviously they were sufficiently satisfied to make the election. That’s the problem as I see it for Hornady. This is the order of fragility, “Red”, then a BIG gap, “Orange” then a small gap, “Blue” no gap “Yellow”, and then the melt your barrel first, “Green”.

 

[hoz53]

Hoz,
Don’t stay up late waiting for a reply……
Wayne

lol- i like that Wayne- i wont spend alot of time looking or testing either!!

 

[Bill Norris]

I have a theory on the subject based on extensive use of A-Tips in multiple calibers.

Hornady doesn’t do enough testing through hot barrels. It’s as simple as that. It is fairly widely acknowledged that their bullets are at the easier end of the spectrum to blow up.

However I’m going to assert that blowups are merely the most extreme manifestation of heat induced inaccuracy, and that 8 and 9 ring point drops with good calls have perturbed shooters. Combine that sensitivity with US style string shooting in F-Class, and avoidance results.

My posts have covered the fact that I have blown up 250’s in F-Open in multiple of my 300 Win Mags. Reading deeper, I have been frustrated with fliers that I believe are damaged from heat but still hit the target.

Several F-Class guys shot thousands of 190’s. The main issue with the 190’s was not blowups, if there were any, but lower aggregate scores and more finicky loading requirements than Berger hybrids.

On blowups I’m going to say that with E -Targets sometimes missing shots, and A-Tips following E-Targets, I do personally suspect strongly that I have vaporized several 190’s, but E-Targets make this almost impossible to ascertain when TR shooters also get no reads.

That I have blown up many 250’s is beyond speculation. Worst case, I had a M, One on, in a two sighter string in February. Then about 9 more in that same string. I’ll have strings where my now-coated bullets and alcohol sprayers keep them all intact but it’s by no means guaranteed there won’t be a no-read. I’m honestly getting tired of potential blowups distracting me.

Hornady hardly acknowledges the existence of F-Class. It is CLEAR that the podcast crew does not partake in our expensive specialized gear personally, and that the company has not bought any, itself, to test with. It’s as if they know that PRS is a better use of their high BC A-Tips because of the low round count, and the screaming BC’s benefits to the shooter when there are no sighters.

It does not help A-Tips that wind has generally been milder over the last 5 years at big LR matches than the 5 years prior to those. I’m invested in A-Tips likely in similar quantities to the two or three largest distributors - combined, and I’m 100% positive that no one at Hornady has shot as many as I have. I could shoot A-Tips at this rate from 52, to 95 without ever buying any more bullets, but I’m running out of hat tricks to try. I could down load them, hope for accuracy and longevity, and try to makeup the difference in better wind calls, but that’s really a last resort.

Hornady, we know that your bullets can shoot small. Until the 1,000 yards, probably everyone here has been beaten by Hornady bullets at one time or another in matches. You are doing a lot right.

But even manufacturers apparently don’t like to be wasteful in times where barrels, powder, man-hours and high-end bullets are ALL expensive, when and if available, but good golly Hornady, I will REVERSE sponsor your A-Tips by letting YOU guys field test them, (all the youth in ballistics there that I get the impression could fit all their guns in one car), in LR string matches under the sun in Phoenix with my Bartlein 5R barrels, in the annoyingly specialized and otherwise useless single shot F-Open gear, and see what you think.

Before the worlds in 2013 when the US F-Open team considered fielding only magnum versions of 7’s, they first shot them abusively to see just what it might take to blow up 180’s, and obviously they were sufficiently satisfied to make the election. That’s the problem as I see it for Hornady. This is the order of fragility, “Red”, then a BIG gap, “Orange” then a small gap, “Blue” no gap “Yellow”, and then the melt your barrel first, “Green”.

Great info on A-tips Bro. I'm getting ready to blow out some brass. Guess what I will be using? Absolutely A-tips.

 

[jwink]

Simple answer is that we have Ferraris, and we have KIAs in this world and everything in between. Both do the same thing, but at different levels of performance.

 

[Tommie]

There’s plenty of market for it, Berger and other custom bullets can’t come close to keeping up!…. Hornaday doesn’t have the equipment nor knowledge to make them besides they have a large part of the market for other disciplines and needs and they do well in that market.
Wayne

I don’t have the intimate knowledge of Hornady’s equipment and knowledge that you do but making a lateral move into match grade bullets would be a snap for Hornady. The company is large and profitable. With a few phone calls they could have whatever equipment and knowledge (by hiring experienced people away from competitors) and blammo - Hornady would be in the match bullet business. Companies poach valuable key employees from their competitors daily. If Hornady wanted to play in the match grade segment they would be doing it.

 

[bozo699]

I don’t have the intimate knowledge of Hornady’s equipment and knowledge that you do but making a lateral move into match grade bullets would be a snap for Hornady. The company is large and profitable. With a few phone calls they could have whatever equipment and knowledge (by hiring experienced people away from competitors) and blammo - Hornady would be in the match bullet business. Companies poach valuable key employees from their competitors daily. If Hornady wanted to play in the match grade segment they would be doing it.

I think,….. Hornaday thinks…….. they already make match grade bullets.
Wayne

 

[jelenko]

Well, I'm pretty sure there are lots of Hornady bullets used in PRS, F Class and 'cross the course' matches to very good effect.

If by 'match grade' you mean 'benchrest', I'm not sure what Hornady thinks. But, if they've got a solid marketing group, they will know that their bullets are not used in benchrest.

 

[Rsadams]

Probably happy selling millions in product to the reloaders who don't need burger bullets or lapua brass...85 percent of reloaders will never use it... If they can hit a beer can at 100yds , it shoots good enough to put meat in the deep freezer... Same reason everybody doesn't own a Corvette...seeing some of the things I've seen working at a gun range and some of the things I've seen as far as reloaders and reloading make me feel both wonder and amazed that there's not a bunch of one eyed people missing fingers wondering around in the world and I mean a bunch...

 

[Tommie]

I think,….. Hornaday thinks…….. they already make match grade bullets.
Wayne

I totally agree that what they are marketing as “match” won’t cut it. And I have zero doubt that Hornady is totally aware these offerings are not on par with real match grade bullets. Match, Target Grade etc has no real definition. Kinda fluid. Similar to budget priced production grade guns sold as target or competition grade. Sure, compared their other guns these target guns may shoot better but nobody’s gonna buy such a rifle and win a competition of any size.

 

[Mcrider55]

Does Hornady sponsor any competitive shooters, do they have “team Hornady”
that competes. I brought up Hornady bullet in another topic mainly because you can find them for sale. And now they seam to be a hot topic on this site but very few positives other for hunting

Sponsored Shooters - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

Sponsored Shooters Hornady® is proud to sponsor some of the most successful competitive shooters in the industry. Our sponsored shooters represent Hornady® Manufacturing across the nation and the world. The top competitors in 3-Gun, Benchrest...

www.hornady.com

 

[bozo699]

Sponsored Shooters - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

Sponsored Shooters Hornady® is proud to sponsor some of the most successful competitive shooters in the industry. Our sponsored shooters represent Hornady® Manufacturing across the nation and the world. The top competitors in 3-Gun, Benchrest...

www.hornady.com

This right here is what Hornaday is good at……. Marketing
Wayne

 

[Bottom Fodder]

This right here is what Hornaday is good at……. Marketing
Wayne

I wonder if they would be interested in sponsoring me and supply me with all I need

 

[nakneker]

I stopped by a well known reloading store the other day, they usually have more bullets on the shelf than anyone else in the area. I hadn’t stopped by in a couple years, I was looking for a couple Nosler bullets, they were not to be found. I asked them if they stopped inventorying them and he pointed to the Hornady section and said “we can get those red boxes but Nosler can’t keep up, great bullet but we couldn’t get enough product” I think that’s the niche Hornady is after. The make some great bullets but production is a priority from what I’ve seen and even then they still run now and again but they do better than most. They had a lot of yellow boxes too.