What grain bullet or gun to see bullet hits at 100 yards at 24x

[markT]

Does anyone even bother to read the question anymore?

No, Just the title and maybe first two lines.. Titles are not import..

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Heavier bullets in a given caliber (at equal pressure) will create more recoil force.

There are many solutions to your problem of not seeing hits on dogs:

1) The simplest and most obvious is to turn your scope magnification down

2) Get a better quality scope with a wider field of view. Cheap to mid grade scopes have awful FOVs on higher mag levels

3) Dial the load velocity down on the heavier bullets to reduce recoil.

4) Install a muzzle brake.

5) Add weight to the rifle

6) Shoot lighter bullets

 

[Ledd Slinger]

I had to pick a distance that I can easily test at. At 100 200 or 300 yards if the center object moves out of edge of field of view you will not see your hits. So its not moot. At 300 yards a PD will not look smaller than a 1x1 inch target at 100 yards at 24x. I tested at 200 too same results.

A bullet at 100 yards is fast enough that you should see the the initial impact on a PD before the recoil is initiated. If not then you are probably flinching and closing your eyes. Have you actually shot PDs with the rifles before or are you just shooting targets?

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

With a standard varmint weight 22-250 11-12# 20x scope I can see hits outside 100 yards, rifle has some movement but you do see the pd bust. Using a x bag up front and a rear squeeze bag on a portable bench. Bullets usually 50 grs and under. No brake, or suppressor. Shooting with bipod(Harris) or adjustable front bag/rest, to much hop to clearly see hits. Same weight rifle/bullet weight in a 223 much cleaner view of pd pops. With no brake/suppressor you can increase rifle weight, reduce bullet weight or reduce velocity to minimize recoil movement. Even going from 11# to 15-16# results in a big movement reduction, as does shooting 40's. I shoot suppressed mostly now, still like a 204r or 20p vs 22-250 for "seeing" hit results.

 

[redrockranger]

This Prairie Dog hunt has wore me out .Still many months away. I believe some disappointment will occur.

 

[dellet]

It’s tough to keep up with all the different threads and sorting out what you’re shooting, how it’s set up, and what you’re shooting from.

It may actually be the wobbly wood bench that is moving more than the rifle, you might do some dry firing to make sure the cross hairs don’t move off the point of aim. If that needs correction, it won’t happen under live fire.

Bipods off hard surfaces can be tough to control. If you’re shooting from one, fold up a towel or use something like an exercise mat under the feet. It helps eliminate that bounce or twist until you get your form right.

An upper that is not tight to the lower can flex enough to change your sight picture.

You might even just need to change your target to something like the ShootNC splatter types, you might just be missing the impact on paper. More so if your point of impact, is not the point of aim.

Plenty of things to check before bullet weight comes into play.

 

[BobbyJ]

Heavier bullets in a given caliber (at equal pressure) will create more recoil force.

There are many solutions to your problem of not seeing hits on dogs:

1) The simplest and most obvious is to turn your scope magnification down

2) Get a better quality scope with a wider field of view. Cheap to mid grade scopes have awful FOVs on higher mag levels

3) Dial the load velocity down on the heavier bullets to reduce recoil.

4) Install a muzzle brake.

5) Add weight to the rifle

6) Shoot lighter bullets

Thanks yea could be the ranges tables. I've done all on the list but the break.

Yes turning the mag down is a work around. I was comparing the same scope I have on my .204 to this one so its apples to apples comparison.
Quality wise its clearer and wider FOV than my Vipers PST. Elite Japan made optics are hard to beat.

I have read quite a few posts about people liking their .204 because when they moved to a larger gun 22-250 they could not longer see their live hits. Too much scope movement. I have 17s and 204 and always could see the hits , its like shooting a pellet gun. But for some reason I could not with this 223 or not as easily so got to thinking this is what they are talking about.

But 223 is a weaker round so it has to be the bullet weight. 204 shooting 32s not the same as 223 with 53gr in terms of scope jump.

I put a A2 stock on today with some steel shot in the compartment. That with the Bipod brings the weight to around 15.5 pounds. quite a bit more than I had in it before. That should probably take care of it.

 

[BobbyJ]

With a standard varmint weight 22-250 11-12# 20x scope I can see hits outside 100 yards, rifle has some movement but you do see the pd bust. Using a x bag up front and a rear squeeze bag on a portable bench. Bullets usually 50 grs and under. No brake, or suppressor. Shooting with bipod(Harris) or adjustable front bag/rest, to much hop to clearly see hits. Same weight rifle/bullet weight in a 223 much cleaner view of pd pops. With no brake/suppressor you can increase rifle weight, reduce bullet weight or reduce velocity to minimize recoil movement. Even going from 11# to 15-16# results in a big movement reduction, as does shooting 40's. I shoot suppressed mostly now, still like a 204r or 20p vs 22-250 for "seeing" hit results.

I just added A2 +1.7 pound + bipod. That should fix it, balance is better now too.
I plan to use the 53vmax

 

[BobbyJ]

This Prairie Dog hunt has wore me out .Still many months away. I believe some disappointment will occur.

This is pre hunt, can't shoot PD with out a gun. The fun is the journey but yea maybe PD shooting will be a huge let down. People go on fishing trips and catch nothing but shill have a good time doing it.

 

[jds holler]

This Prairie Dog hunt has wore me out .Still many months away. I believe some disappointment will occur.

Just keep up that positive attitude, and your worst expectations will be fulfilled. jd

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Thanks yea could be the ranges tables. I've done all on the list but the break.

Yes turning the mag down is a work around. I was comparing the same scope I have on my .204 to this one so its apples to apples comparison.
Quality wise its clearer and wider FOV than my Vipers PST. Elite Japan made optics are hard to beat.

I have read quite a few posts about people liking their .204 because when they moved to a larger gun 22-250 they could not longer see their live hits. Too much scope movement. I have 17s and 204 and always could see the hits , its like shooting a pellet gun. But for some reason I could not with this 223 or not as easily so got to thinking this is what they are talking about.

But 223 is a weaker round so it has to be the bullet weight. 204 shooting 32s not the same as 223 with 53gr in terms of scope jump.

I put a A2 stock on today with some steel shot in the compartment. That with the Bipod brings the weight to around 15.5 pounds. quite a bit more than I had in it before. That should probably take care of it.

View attachment 1379110

Adding weight always helps for sure. All of my varmint rifles are bolt actions and I think the lightest one is about 13 lbs and the heaviest 15 lbs or so. The weight makes a big difference.

 

[BobbyJ]

Heck no. That takes all the fun out of the replies the OP gets.

OP,
I'll say your problem is twofold.
#1 you need to get properly squared up behind the rifle.
#2 make sure the rifle fits you properly.

I can easily spot hits with a 10# 308 launching 168gr bullets and viewing it at 27x.

The 223 should not be any issue, even if it weighs 6lbs.

Well I'm comparing a .204 bolt to 223 AR. It could be the action of that buffer+spring with the reverse recoil make it move more than the 204. Is that .308 you shoot a bolt or AR? Pretty impressive to keep that in the scope at 27x.

I agree with you something is up because my .203 is like 6 pounds and jumps less.

 

[BobbyJ]

Adding weight always helps for sure. All of my varmint rifles are bolt actions and I think the lightest one is about 13 lbs and the heaviest 15 lbs or so. The weight makes a big difference.

Sounds like have been down this road before. Appreciate the input. I'm wondering if ARs actually cause more movement over bolts. They have the two way jackhammer effect while a bolt is just quick one way push.

I would shoot the 40s but the 53s shoot tighter so far and have a little better range.

 

[jepp2]

Curious is around 40gr around the weight were people start having issues seeing hits at 24x?

I've shared with you the shooting table and front and rear rests I use when shooting prairie dogs with centerfire. Since I shoot by myself all the time, I have to spot my own bullet impacts. Not just any that miss, but I want to see the bullet strike on the hits. I rarely hold the center of vitals, as distance and wind cause me to adjust my hold. So exact hit location is also very important.

For a couple of years I shot over 5K rounds through a Sako 223 with 52 gr bullets. Normally I couldn't see the strikes, and I shoot on 24 power all the time. But with my rests, if I put more shoulder into the rifle, I could see everyone.

So instead of just looking at a particular bullet weight were you stop seeing the bullet strikes, consider the rest you use and how you load the rifle with your shoulder. The AR has a distinct advantage with the straight line stock without drop. But what might be limiting you, is the support you shoot from and your technique.

 

[jepp2]

It looks like this now.

What kind of rear bag do you use?

 

[Mike Casselton]

Well I'm comparing a .204 bolt to 223 AR. It could be the action of that buffer+spring with the reverse recoil make it move more than the 204. Is that .308 you shoot a bolt or AR? Pretty impressive to keep that in the scope at 27x.

I agree with you something is up because my .203 is like 6 pounds and jumps less.

The 308 is a 20" bolt rifle.
What you might consider is a different brake that's designed to minimize recoil and also control the impulse and direction of the recoil.

A/Rs are a bit harder to steer, but from the start, you need to be squared behind the rifle.
There are tons of videos and web sites that can help you address this. Once you shoot with your body lined up properly, you'll wonder why you haven't been doing it all along.

 

[BobbyJ]

I've shared with you the shooting table and front and rear rests I use when shooting prairie dogs with centerfire. Since I shoot by myself all the time, I have to spot my own bullet impacts. Not just any that miss, but I want to see the bullet strike on the hits. I rarely hold the center of vitals, as distance and wind cause me to adjust my hold. So exact hit location is also very important.

For a couple of years I shot over 5K rounds through a Sako 223 with 52 gr bullets. Normally I couldn't see the strikes, and I shoot on 24 power all the time. But with my rests, if I put more shoulder into the rifle, I could see everyone.

So instead of just looking at a particular bullet weight were you stop seeing the bullet strikes, consider the rest you use and how you load the rifle with your shoulder. The AR has a distinct advantage with the straight line stock without drop. But what might be limiting you, is the support you shoot from and your technique.

Oh the Sako! Yea I was going to buy a SAKO in .204 the wood one but I got side tracked with this AR project. Love that Sako.

The bench I was on seemed awkward and unnatural. Could not get my shoulder where I wanted it, bags were not right height with rear, the chairs not adjustable up/down. (Lol excuses)

I think you are right on the set up, probably combo of chair height table and lack of stock to shoulder pressure.

 

[jepp2]

Oh the Sako!

Here is that Sako. Now it wears a McMillan stock and is a 20P.

 

[BobbyJ]

Yea love the stock nothing quite like real wood.

 

[BobbyJ]

What kind of rear bag do you use?

This bag or a shorter green caldwell, this one is a little tall with my front bag but seemed to work well with the bipod so I'll probably start to use this one.