What grain bullet or gun to see bullet hits at 100 yards at 24x

[BobbyJ]

I made two .223 PD AR rifles with 24" barrels and they weigh around 10.3 pounds (w scope) and are top heavy plan on adding 3 more pounds to back end to balance it out and help see shots. Neither are thread so no muzzle break.

With 53gr Vmax and up still can't quite see the hits at 100 yard targets at 24x power.
40 and 36gr I can see them.

Seems bullets weight has more to do with it than velocity. But not shot a 22-250 to verify. You guys with 22-250s can you see your hits if using 40gr bullets at 24x.

These are guns I can see hits at 24x no issues
- PCP 22 cal
- .22 rimfire (40 gr)
- .17 WSM 20 gr bullets
- .204 ruger (32 and 40gr) (light gun and no muzzle break)
-.223 this seems to be the point were I can't see hits at 24x. Has to be bullet weight cause .204 ruger is more powerful yet jumps less.

For being much heavier than the .204 ruger the .223 with 53s does jump more even weighing 3 pounds more.

Curious is around 40gr around the weight were people start having issues seeing hits at 24x?

 

[chkunz]

It has more to do with bullet diameter than weight.

 

[Tommie]

It has more to do with bullet diameter than weight.

Interesting. Please explain.

 

[LVLAaron]

Interesting. Please explain.

A 22 caliber hole is a 22 caliber hole. a 42 grain bullet makes the same size hole as a 95 grain bullet.

 

[alf]

You're not going to be shooting prairie dogs on 24X at 100 yards, so it's a moot point.....

 

[Tommie]

A 22 caliber hole is a 22 caliber hole. a 42 grain bullet makes the same size hole as a 95 grain bullet.

How does that affect recoil?

 

[BlueWater]

Had a .243 where I could just barely make out the bullet holes (in paper) at 300yds, using a lower-quality Vortex Crossfire II 6-24x50mm scope. At 200yds, they were clearer, and at 100yds they were sharply-defined. (At least, for my eyes. Which aren't that sharp anymore.)

I suspect optical clarity (from the quality of glass and coatings) matters quite a lot, if expecting a scope to show smaller bullet holes in paper.

Currently have an Athlon Cronus BTR 4.5-29x56mm scope, and it's got razor-sharp clarity. Seeing .223 Rem and 6.5 Creedmoor holes on paper at 100yds is easy, I've found. Particularly if the color of paper clearly differs from the backing color (ie, berm's dirt as viewed through that hole, or if it's DayGlo Orange pasters being used as targets on white paper).

 

[alf]

He's not wanting to spot bullet holes, he want to see impacts for prairie dogging......

 

[BobbyJ]

You're not going to be shooting prairie dogs on 24X at 100 yards, so it's a moot point.....

I had to pick a distance that I can easily test at. At 100 200 or 300 yards if the center object moves out of edge of field of view you will not see your hits. So its not moot. At 300 yards a PD will not look smaller than a 1x1 inch target at 100 yards at 24x. I tested at 200 too same results.

 

[BobbyJ]

He's not wanting to spot bullet holes, he want to see impacts for prairie dogging......

Well I can easily see all the holes but not when they hit w .223. The scope moves enough were the target of out of fov. On my .204 i can see them hit the target form the hole nothing moves out of FOV.
So if i can do that at 100 yards it will apply further out too.

 

[alf]

For someone that's never shot at a prairie dog, you certainly have all the answers.....

 

[moorepower]

Light bullets and heavy guns. .22H and 40 Vmax, .222 and 50 Vmax, rimfires, .223 and 40 Vmax, .20P and 32 grain, .17H and .17FB. I usually am around 12x at that distance.

 

[Tommie]

Does anyone even bother to read the question anymore?

 

[chkunz]

He's not wanting to spot bullet holes, he want to see impacts for prairie dogging......

I reread his post and you are correct, he is not looking at bullet holes on paper, he is looking for "hits"! So, my response was not relevant. Thank for your clarification.

 

[Big_Daddy]

I reread his post and you are correct, he is not looking at bullet holes on paper, he is looking for "hits"! So, my response was not relevant. Thank for your clarification.

I read it the same way you did at first!

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Tommie is a super student today. He gets a gold star on the chart

 

[JSH]

I made two .223 PD AR rifles with 24" barrels and they weigh around 10.3 pounds (w scope) and are top heavy plan on adding 3 more pounds to back end to balance it out and help see shots. Neither are thread so no muzzle break.

With 53gr Vmax and up still can't quite see the hits at 100 yard targets at 24x power.
40 and 36gr I can see them.

Seems bullets weight has more to do with it than velocity. But not shot a 22-250 to verify. You guys with 22-250s can you see your hits if using 40gr bullets at 24x.

These are guns I can see hits at 24x no issues
- PCP 22 cal
- .22 rimfire (40 gr)
- .17 WSM 20 gr bullets
- .204 ruger (32 and 40gr) (light gun and no muzzle break)
-.223 this seems to be the point were I can't see hits at 24x. Has to be bullet weight cause .204 ruger is more powerful yet jumps less.

For being much heavier than the .204 ruger the .223 with 53s does jump more even weighing 3 pounds more.

Curious is around 40gr around the weight were people start having issues seeing hits at 24x?

I am wondering if one of the bi pods that mounts over the top of the bore would help calm it down?
I have read where some say it helps.
My Bushmaster Varmint has shot almost as well as my bolt guns. What keeps it at home and neglected is what you describe.
Bad thing for me at least is the AR allows me to miss faster, I think I am 16 again with an AR in a dog town and get back on the trigger again way to fast for sensible accuracy.

 

[JSH]

Responded to your other thread on bullets, then thought it belongs here after I saw your rig.
Any thoughts on over or under bipods? I have read the over the bore help tame things some?

Have you thought about an A2 stock to be able to add weight in the butt?

Nice clean looking rig BTW, ;-).

 

[BobbyJ]

I am wondering if one of the bi pods that mounts over the top of the bore would help calm it down?
I have read where some say it helps.
My Bushmaster Varmint has shot almost as well as my bolt guns. What keeps it at home and neglected is what you describe.
Bad thing for me at least is the AR allows me to miss faster, I think I am 16 again with an AR in a dog town and get back on the trigger again way to fast for sensible accuracy.

Good question, Yes the Over bore did help, I started to see my shots but the rear still needs a little bit of weight.
It looks like this now.

I have another identical one with black hand guard with same 1/9 24" EBCO barrel. The A2 stock will probably be the icing on the varmint cake. Will have it on to test on Monday. Its fine with the current stock just fine tuning it.

Edit: there is the A2 you suggested. + 1.7lbs of BBs in the rear. Brings weight from like 9.3 to like 15.5 with everything.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Does anyone even bother to read the question anymore?

Heck no. That takes all the fun out of the replies the OP gets.

OP,
I'll say your problem is twofold.
#1 you need to get properly squared up behind the rifle.
#2 make sure the rifle fits you properly.

I can easily spot hits with a 10# 308 launching 168gr bullets and viewing it at 27x.

The 223 should not be any issue, even if it weighs 6lbs.