The most accurate cartridge.

[bozo699]

This thread is asinine! Just read the match results and base your opinions off that! LHSmith, you have consistently been spot on with each of your posts on this thread, I am not following it anymore as it is asinine and a waste of my time! Best of luck longfeather, I will be keeping a eye out on match results for your name on the year ends best agg's with the triple deuce
Wayne.

 

[Longfeather]

Just 2 cents here:
Can't resist saying it.......
Let's look at it from the outside....
If everyone is shooting 6ppc, wouldn't it statistically be number one? Not because it the most accurate, but because if it is the only thing shot in a match, it's always going to win. If everyone shot the .222, it would be king. A little variety might liven things up a little.

....and +1 for the Triple Deuce.

Randfal,
Your two cents is well taken! Common sense is alive and well......PS: The .222 is king and will remain so with me............Longfeather

 

[Longfeather]

This thread is asinine! Just read the match results and base your opinions off that! LHSmith, you have consistently been spot on with each of your posts on this thread, I am not following it anymore as it is asinine and a waste of my time! Best of luck longfeather, I will be keeping a eye out on match results for your name on the year ends best agg's with the triple deuce
Wayne.

Wayne,
Asinine is in the eye of the beholder....and by the way...you can't help but follow this thread.

 

[bozo699]

Longfeater and all the rest of you that THINK or just ASSUME people just switched to the 6ppc for no reason whatsoever your WRONG!! I love the .222 and I do not compete in sr br I also have a 6ppc, as with LH smith I can't see much of a difference between the 52 grain targets from the deuce then I can the 68 grain targets from the ppc,...UNTIL conditions get bad and that is where you will see the difference! IF God said you can only have one I would pick the .222 BECAUSE,.....I do not shoot br with either, so there is no fire forming, I can buy Lapua brass and I just love my little Sako .222 BUT IF!! I was a sr br shooter I would take the ppc, WHY?.......because they WIN!! people didn't walk away from the winning deuce you silly people, the ppc started taking wood away from serious shooters so they took notice and it didn't take long to make the switch, if tomorrow something came out kicking the ppc's butt then it would be on the back burner also! Stop being ridiculous!!! No one ever said at least in this thread that the little deuce wasn't a great cartridge in its own right but it just can't agg with the ppc,...PERIOD THE END!!!
Wayne.


No sir Asinine is having someone tell you it's night time here in the pacific northwest right now and believing them, Asinine is having someone telling you Obammy is a good president and is doing a great job and you believing them, and asinine is thinking the triple deuce is still King of br when the 6ppc has proven itself for decades! thinking it is a great cartridge is great because it is but making yourself for whatever reason believe and trying to talk others into believing the triple deuce is still on top of the game is totally ASININE!!!!!!
Wayne.

 

[Longfeather]

Longfeather and all the rest of you that THINK or just ASSUME people just switched to the 6ppc for no reason whatsoever your WRONG!! I love the .222 and I do not compete in sr br I also have a 6ppc, as with LH smith I can't see much of a difference between the 52 grain targets from the deuce then I can the 68 grain targets from the ppc,...UNTIL conditions get bad and that is where you will see the difference! IF God said you can only have one I would pick the .222 BECAUSE,.....I do not shoot br with either, so there is no fire forming, I can buy Lapua brass and I just love my little Sako .222 BUT IF!! I was a sr br shooter I would take the ppc, WHY?.......because they WIN!! people didn't walk away from the winning deuce you silly people, the ppc started taking wood away from serious shooters so they took notice and it didn't take long to make the switch, if tomorrow something came out kicking the ppc's butt then it would be on the back burner also! Stop being ridiculous!!! No one ever said at least in this thread that the little deuce wasn't a great cartridge in its own right but it just can't agg with the ppc,...PERIOD THE END!!!
Wayne.


No sir Asinine is having someone tell you it's night time here in the pacific northwest right now and believing them, Asinine is having someone telling you Obammy is a good president and is doing a great job and you believing them, and asinine is thinking the triple deuce is still King of br when the 6ppc has proven itself for decades! thinking it is a great cartridge is great because it is but making yourself for whatever reason believe and trying to talk others into believing the triple deuce is still on top of the game is totally ASININE!!!!!!
Wayne.

So I guess what you're saying Wayne is if you're going to shoot competitively you'd pick the 6ppc and if you were going to shoot for shear enjoyment with an accurate cartridge you'd shoot the .222?.... I'm good with that. She's a real sweetheart.......
PS: I so enjoy opinionated people.........thank you for your excellent input.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Now for a realistic point of view....
While the ppc is a GREAT cartridge...and it MIGHT be THE best, it has almost 40 years of technology and experience helping it's cause, vs. the .222. Notable improvements in actions, stocks, triggers, barrels, rests, benches, etc., have been made in that time span. Not to mention wind flags are standard now, and not so much then. Most of these things are accepted as NECESSARY to BEST accuracy today. I'm not saying that the .222 will out agg the ppc, but there simply has not been the same energy and resources applied to finding the answer to that as has been in making the ppc, king. For that matter I'll note that a Hall of Fame shooter, Mike Ratigan, refers to shooting a .22-100 short as being like "cheating", in his book. Also, Tony Boyer's philosophy for "agging them to death" is famous. That logic lends one to believe that a cartridge that is not finicky, but shoots very well, consistently, can WIN. I know about the wind drift advantage. That's why I made my last post about my expereince with shots not going where we want them to if the trigger is pulled at the wrong time. I've tested this theory with higher bc bullets in score shooting ON A CALIBER NEUTRAL target. Dammit, even the high bc bullets still don't go on the chigger when I screw up [SIZE=78%]! I'm not someone who believes the ppc is the end all, be all. Rather, I like to experiment with things that may shoot well. I have proven to myself that my 30 Major cartridge is at least as good as a 30 BR, and have been fortunate enough to have beaten a bunch of them, and finished very respectably in the points, shooting it. I very firmly believe that if half or more of the shooters were shooting it, it would garner MUCH more respect as a viable option to a 30 BR. Now assume for a minute that I'm right, and that it will shoot with a 30br. What if 92+%, including the very best in the game were shooting it, TODAY...would/could it be considered the new KING of score shooting? My honest opinion is an emphatic YES! But, in the case of my 30 Major, it was a day late and a dollar short. In the case of the .222, it MIGHT be the opposite in terms of time...and maybe not. But to state such things as it being asinine to consider it as a viable cartridge, TODAY, is very presumptive. We are a small group, and when the vast majority go with a given cartridge, it ruins the data because there is so little room for improvement. There simply isn't room for a new or old cartridge to claim "substantial" gains when we are already WAY better than our own abilities to tune and shoot what we already have to their full potential. As I already mentioned, I put my money where my mouth is with my 30 Major, and am very pleased. I am now finishing up a .222 to shoot modified class in UBR, on a caliber neutral target. I would NOT go this route if I didn't feel that it could be competitive. That might lead us into another subject, but we'll see. Either way, my money is where my mouth and keyboard are.--Mike Ezell [/SIZE]

 

[FroggyOne2]

The most accurate cartridge is the one that you shoot the best!

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

The most accurate cartridge is the one that you shoot the best!

To a point, that's right. But it's also what the guy shooting a few benches down shoots best.

 

[bozo699]

Now for a realistic point of view....
While the ppc is a GREAT cartridge...and it MIGHT be THE best, it has almost 40 years of technology and experience helping it's cause, vs. the .222. Notable improvements in actions, stocks, triggers, barrels, rests, benches, etc., have been made in that time span. Not to mention wind flags are standard now, and not so much then. Most of these things are accepted as NECESSARY to BEST accuracy today. I'm not saying that the .222 will out agg the ppc, but there simply has not been the same energy and resources applied to finding the answer to that as has been in making the ppc, king. For that matter I'll note that a Hall of Fame shooter, Mike Ratigan, refers to shooting a .22-100 short as being like "cheating", in his book. Also, Tony Boyer's philosophy for "agging them to death" is famous. That logic lends one to believe that a cartridge that is not finicky, but shoots very well, consistently, can WIN. I know about the wind drift advantage. That's why I made my last post about my expereince with shots not going where we want them to if the trigger is pulled at the wrong time. I've tested this theory with higher bc bullets in score shooting ON A CALIBER NEUTRAL target. Dammit, even the high bc bullets still don't go on the chigger when I screw up [SIZE=78%]! I'm not someone who believes the ppc is the end all, be all. Rather, I like to experiment with things that may shoot well. I have proven to myself that my 30 Major cartridge is at least as good as a 30 BR, and have been fortunate enough to have beaten a bunch of them, and finished very respectably in the points, shooting it. I very firmly believe that if half or more of the shooters were shooting it, it would garner MUCH more respect as a viable option to a 30 BR. Now assume for a minute that I'm right, and that it will shoot with a 30br. What if 92+%, including the very best in the game were shooting it, TODAY...would/could it be considered the new KING of score shooting? My honest opinion is an emphatic YES! But, in the case of my 30 Major, it was a day late and a dollar short. In the case of the .222, it MIGHT be the opposite in terms of time...and maybe not. But to state such things as it being asinine to consider it as a viable cartridge, TODAY, is very presumptive. We are a small group, and when the vast majority go with a given cartridge, it ruins the data because there is so little room for improvement. There simply isn't room for a new or old cartridge to claim "substantial" gains when we are already WAY better than our own abilities to tune and shoot what we already have to their full potential. As I already mentioned, I put my money where my mouth is with my 30 Major, and am very pleased. I am now finishing up a .222 to shoot modified class in UBR, on a caliber neutral target. I would NOT go this route if I didn't feel that it could be competitive. That might lead us into another subject, but we'll see. Either way, my money is where my mouth and keyboard are.--Mike Ezell [/SIZE]

Mike as I stated earlier I love the triple deuce I have never bad mouthed it and never will, it is one of those inherently accurate cartridges, it is easy to load and fairly easy to tune, there are people out there still competing with them, you see them on the rosters still but you rarely see them win, those people still shooting them do have the resources of modern times it's just a tough proposition to beat the 6ppc in agg's. The asinine statement to me is calling the .222 the most accurate cartridge in the world and sticking by that statement when the proof is in the paper that it is not! It may hold the smallest group ever documented in a sanctioned match but day in and day out it is not the most accurate, that is all I am saying! I love both little rounds and equally enjoy shooting them, I have an old Revelation which is a Savage that Western Auto renamed and sold years ago, it will shoot 50 v-max bullets inside of .250 most anytime you want to try to group it, it's no bench gun but I have killed 1000's of varmints with it, I have no clue how many rounds are down the tube, I found it in pieces in a pawn shop with no clip, gave $25.00 for it. It isn't worth much but I love the little thing, gave it to my nephew last spring and he will finish wearing it out, so you see I have nothing against them there just not the best thing out there anymore, I have heard others with awesome shooting 30 majors, I like having the odd guy at times, I shoot in a club where almost everyone shoots dashers, I chose the 6brx because I didn't want to be like everyone else, so far I have held true to that thought, there winning and I am not, but I am having fun and I refuse to give up until maybe next match or two then switching to a 6brdx, still refuse to go dasher :
Wayne.

P.S I hope you burn the track up with your little 30 major this year


Longfeather,
Yes that is what I am saying, yes she is a real sweetheart, and you must really like me because I am the most opinionated person on the planet, take care and hope you do well with your triple deuce, they are and always have been an awesome little round.
Wayne.

FoggyOne2,
You have made some amazing things happen at long ranges with your .223 and heavy bullets, I miss talking with you on the phone, I hope we get a chance to chat some day soon.
Wayne.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Now for a realistic point of view....
While the ppc is a GREAT cartridge...and it MIGHT be THE best, it has almost 40 years of technology and experience helping it's cause, vs. the .222. Notable improvements in actions, stocks, triggers, barrels, rests, benches, etc., have been made in that time span. Not to mention wind flags are standard now, and not so much then. Most of these things are accepted as NECESSARY to BEST accuracy today. I'm not saying that the .222 will out agg the ppc, but there simply has not been the same energy and resources applied to finding the answer to that as has been in making the ppc, king. For that matter I'll note that a Hall of Fame shooter, Mike Ratigan, refers to shooting a .22-100 short as being like "cheating", in his book. Also, Tony Boyer's philosophy for "agging them to death" is famous. That logic lends one to believe that a cartridge that is not finicky, but shoots very well, consistently, can WIN. I know about the wind drift advantage. That's why I made my last post about my expereince with shots not going where we want them to if the trigger is pulled at the wrong time. I've tested this theory with higher bc bullets in score shooting ON A CALIBER NEUTRAL target. Dammit, even the high bc bullets still don't go on the chigger when I screw up [SIZE=78%]! I'm not someone who believes the ppc is the end all, be all. Rather, I like to experiment with things that may shoot well. I have proven to myself that my 30 Major cartridge is at least as good as a 30 BR, and have been fortunate enough to have beaten a bunch of them, and finished very respectably in the points, shooting it. I very firmly believe that if half or more of the shooters were shooting it, it would garner MUCH more respect as a viable option to a 30 BR. Now assume for a minute that I'm right, and that it will shoot with a 30br. What if 92+%, including the very best in the game were shooting it, TODAY...would/could it be considered the new KING of score shooting? My honest opinion is an emphatic YES! But, in the case of my 30 Major, it was a day late and a dollar short. In the case of the .222, it MIGHT be the opposite in terms of time...and maybe not. But to state such things as it being asinine to consider it as a viable cartridge, TODAY, is very presumptive. We are a small group, and when the vast majority go with a given cartridge, it ruins the data because there is so little room for improvement. There simply isn't room for a new or old cartridge to claim "substantial" gains when we are already WAY better than our own abilities to tune and shoot what we already have to their full potential. As I already mentioned, I put my money where my mouth is with my 30 Major, and am very pleased. I am now finishing up a .222 to shoot modified class in UBR, on a caliber neutral target. I would NOT go this route if I didn't feel that it could be competitive. That might lead us into another subject, but we'll see. Either way, my money is where my mouth and keyboard are.--Mike Ezell [/SIZE]

Mike as I stated earlier I love the triple deuce I have never bad mouthed it and never will, it is one of those inherently accurate cartridges, it is easy to load and fairly easy to tune, there are people out there still competing with them, you see them on the rosters still but you rarely see them win, those people still shooting them do have the resources of modern times it's just a tough proposition to beat the 6ppc in agg's. The asinine statement to me is calling the .222 the most accurate cartridge in the world and sticking by that statement when the proof is in the paper that it is not! It may hold the smallest group ever documented in a sanctioned match but day in and day out it is not the most accurate, that is all I am saying! I love both little rounds and equally enjoy shooting them, I have an old Revelation which is a Savage that Western Auto renamed and sold years ago, it will shoot 50 v-max bullets inside of .250 most anytime you want to try to group it, it's no bench gun but I have killed 1000's of varmints with it, I have no clue how many rounds are down the tube, I found it in pieces in a pawn shop with no clip, gave $25.00 for it. It isn't worth much but I love the little thing, gave it to my nephew last spring and he will finish wearing it out, so you see I have nothing against them there just not the best thing out there anymore, I have heard others with awesome shooting 30 majors, I like having the odd guy at times, I shoot in a club where almost everyone shoots dashers, I chose the 6brx because I didn't want to be like everyone else, so far I have held true to that thought, there winning and I am not, but I am having fun and I refuse to give up until maybe next match or two then switching to a 6brdx, still refuse to go dasher :
Wayne.

P.S I hope you burn the track up with your little 30 major this year


Longfeather,
Yes that is what I am saying, yes she is a real sweetheart, and you must really like me because I am the most opinionated person on the planet, take care and hope you do well with your triple deuce, they are and always have been an awesome little round.
Wayne.

FoggyOne2,
You have made some amazing things happen at long ranges with your .223 and heavy bullets, I miss talking with you on the phone, I hope we get a chance to chat some day soon.
Wayne.

Wayne, I have one very simple question. Can you PROVE any accuracy advantage between the Dasher and the BRX, that does NOT relate to the numbers of shooters? That's all, as I believe it also relates to our topic, although, not necessarily to the .222 --Mike

 

[bozo699]

Mike,
Nope, other then I have shot well and won numerous relay's I have no world or even club records and on a day to day basis, Tom Mousel and Leo Anderson Kicks my A** if I shoot a 8" group, they shoot 5" if I shoot 5" they shoot 4", just the way it has been, I am not giving up yet though.
Wayne.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Mike,
Nope, other then I have shot well and won numerous relay's I have no world or even club records and on a day to day basis, Tom Mousel and Leo Anderson Kicks my A** if I shoot a 8" group, they shoot 5" if I shoot 5" they shoot 4", just the way it has been, I am not giving up yet though.
Wayne.

Don't give up!!! But my point is obvious.

 

[BigDMT]

Mike,
Nope, other then I have shot well and won numerous relay's I have no world or even club records and on a day to day basis, Tom Mousel and Leo Anderson Kicks my A** if I shoot a 8" group, they shoot 5" if I shoot 5" they shoot 4", just the way it has been, I am not giving up yet though.
Wayne.

Well then Wayne, I suggest you start shooting some friggin 4's... cuz I shure would like to start nailing some 3's lol.

Tom

I guess I could start shooting 4's for you Tom. You just give me one of your guns again and I can make it happen hahaha

 

[GSPV]

On "Proof":

My undergrad degree is in Math. I asked the chairman of the math department, who taught my Modern Algebra course, what consitituted an "acceptable proof".

He replied that an acceptable proof was one that succeeded in convincing its audience.

It didn't sink in at the time, but, over the years, I've learned a lot from that.

 

[bozo699]

Mike,
Nope, other then I have shot well and won numerous relay's I have no world or even club records and on a day to day basis, Tom Mousel and Leo Anderson Kicks my A** if I shoot a 8" group, they shoot 5" if I shoot 5" they shoot 4", just the way it has been, I am not giving up yet though.
Wayne.

Well then Wayne, I suggest you start shooting some friggin 4's... cuz I shure would like to start nailing some 3's lol.

Tom

I have no doubt in my mind that you will Tom, I route for you all the time, you and Leo have been awesome mentors and friends, you two deserve every win you get that is for sure, I got almost as excited watching you tell me I shot a 100 last year as I did shooting it, all you guys over there are awesome, I think when I get my new rifle going things will improve, with every new thing I do things get better, I had an amazing year last year and hope for another one this year, I hope your new one turns out to be the new most accurate long range cartridge! see ya in two days my friend
Wayne.

 

[BigDMT]

Wayne,

By the time she is done, I will have all the tricks for DX figured out for ya. Witch btw is the most accurate cartridge... my bet is if we agged a DX against a ppc at short range, it would lose by less than it wins by when we go long.

Brandon,

I'll let you break the record with my LG Sunday, after I break it Saturday!

Tom

Might have to take you up on that if I can make it. Still getting situated in the new house. Almost have my reloading area all set up, but good god I've got a lot of crap. Gonna pull a couple all nighters to try and get some rounds loaded for my 6.5x47 and get her shooting decent. Still don't have a good front rest though. If it looks like I can make it, I'll get ahold of Dennis to see if he's going and maybe borrow one of his rests til I get my mailing address ironed out and order one for myself. Hope to be there, but it'll be tough to get everything done in time. We'll see...

 

[M14AMU]

You'd come nearer getting a more definitive reply if you'd asked "What's best....blondes, brunettes, or redheads?"

 

[GSPV]

Ginger or Mary Ann?

Answer: Same as "most accurate cartridge?" "It depends."

 

[Longfeather]

Something tells me we're going south on this thread.......

 

[BigDMT]

Something tells me we're going south on this thread.......

You can only beat a subject so far into the ground before it becomes open mic night