In a heavy gun take your pick of a 300 mag style case, For a light rifle the 6.5-284 seems to be a winner.
Most tolerant 1,000 yard cartridge ?
- Thread starter Hammer
- Start date
The "300 Remington Ultra Magnum" seems about like a imperial magnum. Its is very fine round becoming pretty popular with LRH's. Its matches and exceeds some of the 300 Weatherby Imp'ed cartridges.
300 RUM
Gene Nowaczyk
Most think of the 300 RUM as a great hunting round, I like to think of it as the perfect round depending on the load you might use. I have never shoot in any competition other then between my friends and myself, how ever friends are pushing me to it. I love the velocity it deliveries, and BC's you get with a 30cal, 220gr sierra match. On a clam day I can hit tennis balls at a 1,000yrds all day long. It gets warm after 20 rounds but so does my .223 and .308. So what do you do? Is there really a better choice for F-class ?
Erik Cortina
Team Lapua Brux Borden Captain
300 RUM said:
You forgot to say "When I do my part!" ;D
300 RUM said:
Than a 300 RUM? Yes, many!
falconpilot
Gold $$ Contributor
Please don't discount the Dasher! I don't know about what happens in England, but here in the states , a Dasher is just as apt to beat you as a big 7mm... I've shoot a Dasher fir several years( including the Nationals where I beat ALOT of guys shooting the bigger guns), and done extremely well with it, even in very windy (I also travel alot and shoot at different ranges, contests)conditions!!(Texas State Championships in 09). I'll be the first to admit that on really windy days, it's hard to beat the big sevens, but if the conditions aren't bad, the ease of shooting and deadly accuracy of the Dasher is a deadly combo...
The 7mms are better in the wind no doubt, and if you can make one shoot, they are near impossible tO out do... But ask around, and you'll find a lot of guys that struggle making one shoot...I'm one of them!!! For a first gun into the game, the Dasher(or any 6 capable of pushing the 105/108's is a great way to start!!! I believe that I have my 7mm problems behind me now, but you can bet your last dollar that I've got a 6Dasher in the truck ready to go if the 7 starts giving me the verticals again!!
Good luck with your choice and keeper in the centers,
The 7mms are better in the wind no doubt, and if you can make one shoot, they are near impossible tO out do... But ask around, and you'll find a lot of guys that struggle making one shoot...I'm one of them!!! For a first gun into the game, the Dasher(or any 6 capable of pushing the 105/108's is a great way to start!!! I believe that I have my 7mm problems behind me now, but you can bet your last dollar that I've got a 6Dasher in the truck ready to go if the 7 starts giving me the verticals again!!
Good luck with your choice and keeper in the centers,
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
300rum,
First of all I should welcome you to the forum,Welcome. With that said the .300rum is a fine long range hunting rifle,easily capable of killing elk @ 1k and maybe a occasional tennis ball
20 rounds through a .300rum even spaced 5 min apart with a heavy barrel you could cook eggs on it, I would think witin a couple of hundred rounds the barrel of would be toast. @ anyrate good shooting to you and good luck. Oh and by the way if you plan on shooting many tennis balls @ 1k yards you might want to look on the web @ David Tubbs site he has competed in one or two 1k matches and could probably give you a tip or two
http://www.davidtubb.com/about_david.html
Wayne.
First of all I should welcome you to the forum,Welcome. With that said the .300rum is a fine long range hunting rifle,easily capable of killing elk @ 1k and maybe a occasional tennis ball
20 rounds through a .300rum even spaced 5 min apart with a heavy barrel you could cook eggs on it, I would think witin a couple of hundred rounds the barrel of would be toast. @ anyrate good shooting to you and good luck. Oh and by the way if you plan on shooting many tennis balls @ 1k yards you might want to look on the web @ David Tubbs site he has competed in one or two 1k matches and could probably give you a tip or two http://www.davidtubb.com/about_david.html
Wayne.
I would think that even in an F-Class rifle and weighing what they do that recoil with a 300RUM would start to have an effect on you and put you at a disadvantage to most other rounds. As well as the issues with heat, because if a 6.5-284 heats up a barrel, than a 300RUM is really going to heat it up. But with the rifle moving as much as it will under recoil, I would think that alone would slow you down enough (getting back on target, and not someone else's!) to put you at a disadvantage. Never mind the fatigue from being pounded in the shoulder, as even the heavy .300 win mag I have fired got tiresome after a bit.
I am not sure of the rules, but unless you could run a brake, I think it's just too much to really be practical. Especially when there are rounds that throw the 7mm high BC bullets as fast as they do without producing the recoil or heat that a 300RUM does. And then there are those pesky little 6's that will just completely ruin your day if you give them even the slightest chance.
But as for competing with a RUM, if you want to, go for it. I'm far from a long range comp expert, so I am nobody to tell you not to. But it's far from what I would take to the line.
6BR or 6BR Improved is where I would be. 6BR for 600, improved for 1K. As Falconpilot said, they will really give you a run when the winds are decent, and they are really easy to shoot well because of the low recoil.
Kenny
I am not sure of the rules, but unless you could run a brake, I think it's just too much to really be practical. Especially when there are rounds that throw the 7mm high BC bullets as fast as they do without producing the recoil or heat that a 300RUM does. And then there are those pesky little 6's that will just completely ruin your day if you give them even the slightest chance.
But as for competing with a RUM, if you want to, go for it. I'm far from a long range comp expert, so I am nobody to tell you not to. But it's far from what I would take to the line.
6BR or 6BR Improved is where I would be. 6BR for 600, improved for 1K. As Falconpilot said, they will really give you a run when the winds are decent, and they are really easy to shoot well because of the low recoil.
Kenny
.300 RUM? ..... Er, no thank you! .300s (but not as big as that) put in an appearance every now and then over here in the UK, but always fade out again after a while. Too many downsides compared to the sevens and no upsides. If and when Berger appear with the higher BC .308" bullets they're working on? .... well, we'll have to see.
On the barrel heating issue, (and associated life issue too), as GLC (Gary Costello, the reigning F-Class World Champion) pointed out a good while back, there is an important UK v US difference that affects these matters -string v squadded shooting. We shoot in pairs here, so take alternate shots and pause to mark our partner's scorecard before taking our own shot. That keeps barrel temperatures down compared to taking 20 shots at a fast clip in string shooting. We also shoot in lower ambient temperatures on the whole and only rarely in still conditions, so barrel-heat induced mirage is maybe less of an issue too.
Another factor to bear in mind is that two of the three ranges that we use for our national league rounds are mountain valley ranges and classed as 'exceptionally difficult' in terms of wind speeds, wind directional variability, and also sometimes suffer from marked variablility in the vertical components involved in wind switches, the last named sometimes near impossible to predict, so a good wind call can still see a dropped point due vertical movement. I'd never say Bisley is an 'easy' range, but Diggle and Blair Atholl can be nightmarish under some conditions. Blair has been described by some international rifle team coach or another as "the third most difficult range on the planet"! So, if you get the wind in the 'wrong' direction at either of these ranges, an external ballistics edge is worth points, hence the advantage of the big sevens. I've seen competitors choose 6.5-284 over 7WSM at Diggle having taken both and having reckoned the conditions would suit the smaller calibre with its lighter recoil, and then wish they hadn't by the end of the weekend!
So, over here, it's getting the best balance of cost (barrel life), recoil, accuracy, and external ballistics. That's worked out as 7mm to date with the rich types using WSM and to a lesser extent SAUM based jobs, the not so rich types moving to .284 Win or .284 Shehane. Grant Taylor, the Scotsman who is GB F-Class League Champion for the 2nd year in a row and also F-Class European Champion after last month's European Championship meeting at Bisley uses the .284 Shehane and Gary is trying the 'straight 284'.
A number of our guys were over for the SOA matches at Raton a couple of months back. They reported issues over using the big sevens at UK loads levels in Raton's conditions and string shooting, such as an increase in dropped points during the second half of a twenty shot string, almost certainly barrel temperature related.
Fan of the sixes as I am, I've got to say that they rarely work in our type of shooting at national level, in our conditions at any rate. Slow shooting speeds and very variable conditions see many shots needing an almost 'start afresh' approach to the wind, and the sixes just can't hack it at 900 and 1,000yd. It's too easy for even the best wind readers to drop the occasional extra point and F-Open has reached the level of competitiveness here where a single extra lost point over the four or five matches in a typical league round meeting drops you a place, sometimes even three or four places in the final position, if you're a top contender.
Having said all that, I'll now partly contradict myself as Swede Christer Jacobsson shooting a 6XC was the only competitor out of about 80 to 'clean' the F-Class European team shoots in November with 150 ex 150 after 15 shots each at 900 and 1,000yd. Being a team shoot, it was shot under string-shooting conditions, so maybe that made the bit of extra difference giving the advantage back to a smaller calibre. The winds were a light but fishtailing headwind with regular gusts up, not in what would be classed as 'really difficult' but not what you'd call 'easy' either.
Laurie,
York, England
On the barrel heating issue, (and associated life issue too), as GLC (Gary Costello, the reigning F-Class World Champion) pointed out a good while back, there is an important UK v US difference that affects these matters -string v squadded shooting. We shoot in pairs here, so take alternate shots and pause to mark our partner's scorecard before taking our own shot. That keeps barrel temperatures down compared to taking 20 shots at a fast clip in string shooting. We also shoot in lower ambient temperatures on the whole and only rarely in still conditions, so barrel-heat induced mirage is maybe less of an issue too.
Another factor to bear in mind is that two of the three ranges that we use for our national league rounds are mountain valley ranges and classed as 'exceptionally difficult' in terms of wind speeds, wind directional variability, and also sometimes suffer from marked variablility in the vertical components involved in wind switches, the last named sometimes near impossible to predict, so a good wind call can still see a dropped point due vertical movement. I'd never say Bisley is an 'easy' range, but Diggle and Blair Atholl can be nightmarish under some conditions. Blair has been described by some international rifle team coach or another as "the third most difficult range on the planet"! So, if you get the wind in the 'wrong' direction at either of these ranges, an external ballistics edge is worth points, hence the advantage of the big sevens. I've seen competitors choose 6.5-284 over 7WSM at Diggle having taken both and having reckoned the conditions would suit the smaller calibre with its lighter recoil, and then wish they hadn't by the end of the weekend!
So, over here, it's getting the best balance of cost (barrel life), recoil, accuracy, and external ballistics. That's worked out as 7mm to date with the rich types using WSM and to a lesser extent SAUM based jobs, the not so rich types moving to .284 Win or .284 Shehane. Grant Taylor, the Scotsman who is GB F-Class League Champion for the 2nd year in a row and also F-Class European Champion after last month's European Championship meeting at Bisley uses the .284 Shehane and Gary is trying the 'straight 284'.
A number of our guys were over for the SOA matches at Raton a couple of months back. They reported issues over using the big sevens at UK loads levels in Raton's conditions and string shooting, such as an increase in dropped points during the second half of a twenty shot string, almost certainly barrel temperature related.
Fan of the sixes as I am, I've got to say that they rarely work in our type of shooting at national level, in our conditions at any rate. Slow shooting speeds and very variable conditions see many shots needing an almost 'start afresh' approach to the wind, and the sixes just can't hack it at 900 and 1,000yd. It's too easy for even the best wind readers to drop the occasional extra point and F-Open has reached the level of competitiveness here where a single extra lost point over the four or five matches in a typical league round meeting drops you a place, sometimes even three or four places in the final position, if you're a top contender.
Having said all that, I'll now partly contradict myself as Swede Christer Jacobsson shooting a 6XC was the only competitor out of about 80 to 'clean' the F-Class European team shoots in November with 150 ex 150 after 15 shots each at 900 and 1,000yd. Being a team shoot, it was shot under string-shooting conditions, so maybe that made the bit of extra difference giving the advantage back to a smaller calibre. The winds were a light but fishtailing headwind with regular gusts up, not in what would be classed as 'really difficult' but not what you'd call 'easy' either.
Laurie,
York, England
falconpilot
Gold $$ Contributor
Well put Laurie!! ;D
Erik Cortina
Team Lapua Brux Borden Captain
Jim, I'm glad to hear you are no longer "vertically challenged"... well, at least your gun is not! ;D
See you in Phoenix buddy!
See you in Phoenix buddy!
300 RUM- That's mighty fine shooting if your claim is accurate. If you can repeat that performance in competition, you can make history, since to the best of my knowledge, you consistantly best World Record 1000 yd. group by an inch, or cutting the WR agg in half. And to accomplish this magnificent feat at will .....all day long ....with a heavy thumper like the 300 RUM makes it even more astonishing. Maybe you could do a You-Tube vid for us to see.Unfortunately for you :
, the clam days are far and few between on match days.
, the clam days are far and few between on match days.Around 1,500 ft ASL, so Raton is much higher. The guy who was telling me this (Des Parr, former GB F-Class Team Captain and a very experienced long-range shooter) was sure it was a barrel temperature / string-shooting issue. I also suspect that our 7mmWSM users may need to tone their loads down a bit for Raton's afternoon temperatures - they run them very hot indeed in our cool climate.
(This is going to apply to some of our top F/TR .308W shooters too in 2013 at the next FCWC in Raton, since we have some high-pressure loads being run here with Viht N540 and N550, only Russell Simmonds using a Hodgdon extreme powder.)
Thank you very much 300 RUM, and that is as sincere as it gets. Very much appreciated.
Welcome to the forum. This is a really great place, and most all will welcome you and give you as much help as they possibly can whenever you ask. Not to mention that many of the members are top ranked shooters and well known gunsmiths, as well as representatives from several companies that produce products that we use in the shooting sports. Most others are really great guys and girls who love shooting. I hope you enjoy your stay and I look forward to your posts.
Kenny
Welcome to the forum. This is a really great place, and most all will welcome you and give you as much help as they possibly can whenever you ask. Not to mention that many of the members are top ranked shooters and well known gunsmiths, as well as representatives from several companies that produce products that we use in the shooting sports. Most others are really great guys and girls who love shooting. I hope you enjoy your stay and I look forward to your posts.
Kenny
300 RUM
I just want to invite you to try F-Class.
F-Class is an extremely enjoyable form of competition with some of the best people I’ve ever had the pleasure of meeting. I have shot F-Class all across the U.S. and overseas, and can safely say that the overwhelming majority of the competitors are extremely helpful and supportive to new shooters.
David
I just want to invite you to try F-Class.
F-Class is an extremely enjoyable form of competition with some of the best people I’ve ever had the pleasure of meeting. I have shot F-Class all across the U.S. and overseas, and can safely say that the overwhelming majority of the competitors are extremely helpful and supportive to new shooters.
David
Hello Laurie
Concure on your great post about the 7mm over the giant .300's and most importantly why. I shoot the 6.5mm and will continue to do so, as for me its my preferance over heavy recoiling rifles as Im strapped into the rifle shooting out of a sling vs letting it ride a front rest and rear bag. Its about as much recoil as I like to subject myself too and still be competative at the National level. I enjoy the High BC of the 6.5mm and the lower recoil of the same.
Also in you post you said
"A number of our guys were over for the SOA matches at Raton a couple of months back. They reported issues over using the big sevens at UK loads levels in Raton's conditions and string shooting, such as an increase in dropped points during the second half of a twenty shot string, almost certainly barrel temperature related."
Unfortunatly I was unable to attend the 2010 Spirit of America Match in Raton NM this year do to a trip to a country that ends in stan.
I did attand the 2009 SOA match ( even won a match with a 449 out of 450) and the course of fire is a Fullbore two to the mound course of fire. not typical string shooting of US design. In the team match that can be String shooting if the coach so chooses. Fun place to shoot no less.
Yours in Marksmanship
Russ Theurer
Concure on your great post about the 7mm over the giant .300's and most importantly why. I shoot the 6.5mm and will continue to do so, as for me its my preferance over heavy recoiling rifles as Im strapped into the rifle shooting out of a sling vs letting it ride a front rest and rear bag. Its about as much recoil as I like to subject myself too and still be competative at the National level. I enjoy the High BC of the 6.5mm and the lower recoil of the same.
Also in you post you said
"A number of our guys were over for the SOA matches at Raton a couple of months back. They reported issues over using the big sevens at UK loads levels in Raton's conditions and string shooting, such as an increase in dropped points during the second half of a twenty shot string, almost certainly barrel temperature related."
Unfortunatly I was unable to attend the 2010 Spirit of America Match in Raton NM this year do to a trip to a country that ends in stan.
I did attand the 2009 SOA match ( even won a match with a 449 out of 450) and the course of fire is a Fullbore two to the mound course of fire. not typical string shooting of US design. In the team match that can be String shooting if the coach so chooses. Fun place to shoot no less.
Yours in Marksmanship
Russ Theurer
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