Most tolerant 1,000 yard cartridge ?

[deadlyswift]

I am as green as the grass when it comes to 1000yrd shooting and comp. Just shot my first 1000yrd F class match this past weekend. Savage 10fcp in .308. However I did shoot a 135-1x and a 134-1x in my two individual relays. This was unlimited sighters with 15 shots for record. That's not too bad concidering my first comp and first time at 1000yrd. As well with a factory rifle that has a bedding job. I was shooting the 175gr. bergers. With most 308's getting 3000 to 4000 rounds out of a barrel. I will be able to use this rifle in many more matches and getting pass many learning curves without spending a fortune on a custom rig. as I only have 675 rounds down the tube to date. Once my ablity has pass my equipment will I only then move on to a full blown custom rig. As well look what the 308 has proven in the F/TR class. The 308 has been around for a long time and I bet it will be around that much longer.

As said by many above The 7mm and the High BC 180gr bullets are ruleing right now. But for someone to start out, the 308 is a great starting place!! One's ablity to shoot at 1, 2, 300yrds and a little further means squat when you get to 1000yrds. Wind and mirage will kick your butt at that distance. My point is if your go the 308 route you want spend a ton of money, but you will get many much needed lessons when it comes to reading wind and mirage. As well the 308 is very easy to load for.
Mark

 

[placek59]

Fellas, I'm pretty sure that the .220 swift comment was an inside joke, and a pretty good one at that, for a few of us Other than that the rest of it sounds like pretty good advice.

 

[Travelor]

I have shot 1000 yards for a number of years - all F-Class after it became available. I hold a High Master NRA classification and attend at least 2 weekends a month at 1000 and 600 yard matches as well as hold our local Club's 2-300 yard F-Class matches.

I think for 600 yards and under the 6mmBR is THE cartridge to beat. For 1000 yards, I think the the 6mm Dasher a really great 600 and 1000 yard cartridge unless the wind is really blowing and then a 7mm such as the 284 would be a better choice.

Luckily, a shooter can build both guns by have the smith make his gun with two barrels - one in 6mmBR and the second in other 6mm Dasher or 284 Win. One for 600 and under and one for 1000 yards. This would be the HOT ticket to success in answering the original question.

If the shooter were to want to go the F/TR way, there really is only one cartridge right now to consider , the 308 as the shooters haven't got the 223 Rem totally worked out yet for reliable shooting at 1000 yards with heavy bullets. I know some are getting close, but the long thin cartridge case is really causing problems with low ES's for most of us trying this - and I am with limited success.

I have three 6mmBR rifles, two 308 Winchester rifles, and one 223 1:7 twist, and one 223 1:9 twist rifles, all dedicated to long range shooting.

Good shooting,

George

 

[Obtunded]

If I may add my thoughts on the matter... There is no doubt that in the hands of an experienced and skilled shooter/reloader, the heavy 7mm bullets reign king, but just as few drivers can master a Mclaren F1 car their first time out, mastering long range shooting is the culmination of so many variables, and mastering ALL of them.

I feel (and remember what you paid for my advice) that a 6BR is about the best thing going for 600yd shooting (I actually shoot them to a mile on my property). It is the cartrige to help you master everyting you need to know about long range shooting - at medium range, and it is a competent performer in the right hands, even at 1000 yards. Once you have mastered the techniques of loading (and load development) and repeatable precision shooting, then using a dedicated long range cartridge like the 7WSM, 284.*, etc. will give you the elements to achieve winning success.

I believe mastering shorter ranges is more important that the choice of a long range catridge in the greater scheme of things. Whn all is said an done, getting that 7mm 180 up to 2900+ accurately is the next big challenge.

 

[spclark]

Well, thread starter lives in America, and he might atleast review competitive American cartridges:
http://www.pa1000yard.com/wo/wotoplists.php?year=2010&cls=Light+Gun&grsc=Group&topct=ALL&send=Submit
He might also notice ZERO 308Wins at this IBS tourney.
So unless going for a pity award -just for showing up with a 308Win, it's probably not advisable to do so.

But if you look at the World Open 2-gun overall list for score you see quite a number of 300 WSM's in the top 10 spots, all being bested by a 6-284 & 6XC:

http://www.pa1000yard.com/wo/wotoplists.php?year=2010&cls=2+Gun+Overall&grsc=Score&topct=50&send=Submit

I'd never recommend a WSM or Weatherby as an easy gun to shoot! Many 6mm's can go the distance & won't beat you up while doing so.

 

[mikecr]

But if you look at the World Open 2-gun overall list for score you see quite a number of 300 WSM's in the top 10 spots, all being bested by a 6-284 & 6XC

This is right inline with what I'm trying to express here. These cartridges leave a 308Win in the dust.

So is this challenge to identify easy cartridges to shoot? Or easy cartridges to shoot well at 1kyds with?
Thread starter didn't specify that he's limited to shooting only 308Win at 1kyd(just the opposite). So it's my contention that there is no reason to.
'Tolerant' to me implies tolerant to errors(like hold-off).

Like I said: Pick a high BC bullet, and pick the capacity to use it.

 

[boogershooter]

I dont take myself too seriously, so I have to say get yourself a .308 to start with .Then have a switch barrel set up after you have soaked on it for a few months. And above all, enjoy!

 

[dsbw]

Laurie

Tx for your sensible reply! makes a whole lot of sense, many have warned for a long time that F-open is becoming an equipment race, which is now bearing out just like that. FTR is a very sensible format in more than one way, in my opinion the best wind readers in the game is to be found in FTR and Bisley rifles.

 

[ktoney]

My 2 cents

any good 6/6.5
6SLR
6-6.5x47
6.5GAP
6.5x47

6mm running 105berger huntingVLD higher BC than target due to design change

6.5 140vld berger or JLK

308 only if forced to by class requirements

6SLR running 105 bergers wud be competitive anywhere depending on shooter ability

 

[4xforfun]

Tolerant..... well, as for some above statements.....416...not legal....must be .400 or less (not .338).... 416 to big. I think they covered the swift pretty well. . 308....MAYBE....in perfect conditions....with a 210 class bullet. Why the 6 BRX would be easier than the dasher is beond me....only difference is the sholder angle.

Now...the things that I would be looking for is....long BBL life, low recoil, proven cartride, good bullets, good bbls, good bag manners, good wind bucking ability.

Going to have to go with the dasher (or BRX)...it has it all....good bullets and bullet selection, low recoil, lots of bbl life, good wind bucking ability, been winning a bunch in both 600 and 1000 br, low recoil (again), and low recoil!! ;D

The 6.5 284 is fantastic, but the bbl life is poor...recoil is moderate, bullets are great.

the 30 cals......my choice would be the 300 WSM......good BBL life, good bullets, ect.... Wins alot...especialy in HG. But the recoil thing is less than "tolerant" in LG. A big key to 1K is shooting fast...and the 30 cals recoil will upset the gun far more than the dasher (or BRX). I wasn't that smart and opted for the 300 wby, but the original use for the gun was sticking deer at long range, not BR. I have had good luck with it, but I am considering switching to the Dasher.

Yep...its the Dasher (or BRX)......Has it all, and, as poppular as it is, is actualy INCREASING in numbers on the line.

 

[TX65]

.

There are many different cartridges that have been touted for 1,000 yard competition and have won some matches.

What cartridge is the most tolerant for 1,000 yard shooting ?

That is, not necessarily the one cartridge that an expert could use to win.

But the one that ten different gun builders, handloaders, and shooters could shoot the highest average score at 1,000 yards.

What bullet and load has been the most successful with this tolerant cartridge ?

.

I assume you are looking for proven established performance with minimal fuss so the list would be:

6 BR with a 105
6.5x47 Lapua with a 130 VLD
6.5-284 with a 139, 140 VLD or 141 VLD
308 Winchester

All of the above have Lapua brass available native to each chambering and would require minimal case prep to be in business. There are well established load recipes that many people shoot well. Best of all, you can have a switch barrel and shoot all four on the same action and stock.

The 7mm is all the buzz after the last world championship and while the 284 Winchester can perform well and can be made from Lapua 6.5-284 brass, the 7mm wind is blowing towards a magnum case to push a 180 VLD at 2950 fps. Right now the best WSM or SAUM brass to start with is Norma. Your other options are Remington or Winchester brass.

 

[M14AMU]

Without a doubt had I been able to shoot the 6.5x47Lapua round a few years back the only guys that would have probably beat me would have been my friend David Tubb or Middleton Tompkins or possibly Carl Bernosky but I'd have given them a very good run for the money with this cartridge! This cartridge is the most accurate 1000 yard round I have ever fired and I have given it severe workout here at my home range from 1000 yds. It's ultra easy to load for and shooting 123 gr. Sierra HPBT or 130 gr. Bergers....it will hold the X ring such that if you shoot one out...you're wondering why!! And it does it with a mere 38.5 grs. Varget powder. Lapua brass requires no neck-turning or other BS! Just prime, charge, seat the bullet and go shoot Xs!! Beats the proverbial dog out of the Sierra 155 in .30 caliber. I've shot enough Palma events over the years to know!

 

[Plugger]

I use a 7x57 cartridge necked down to 6.5 and blown out some. Not hard to make and does the same as the 6.5-284 with less powder.

 

[Laurie]

I use a 7x57 cartridge necked down to 6.5 and blown out some. Not hard to make and does the same as the 6.5-284 with less powder.
Logged
rhm

That's called 6.5X55mm Improved - or near enough to make little difference. In practice, since the 6.5-284 has more case capacity than needed for most loads, there is less difference between 6.5X55mm, 6.5X57mm, their improved versions and 6.5-284 Norma than most people assume. In theory, the slightly smaller capacity versions should be more efficient than the 284 based cartridge as they offer the chance of a near 100% fill-ratio at optimum MVs, but all attempts that I've heard of to 'improve' the cartridge by setting the shoulder back and creating a shorter version didn't provide any particular benefits, or even any at all, for all the reforming work involved.

So, in practice, if you want a 6.5 that gives a 140gn bullet anything you fancy between 2,800 and 3,050 fps depending on powder and charge weight applied, all will get there, and it's down to personal preference and other factors such as brass availability and quality, price, preparation workload etc. That what makes the 6.5-284 so attractive. It's mostly already been done for you, whether in chamber reamer design, quality brass at a reasonable price, and a host of tried, tested and proven match-winning loads. As an alternative choice, 6.5X55mm has a lot going for it - good Lapua brass, most of the 6.5-284's velocity performance, and proven accuracy.

Laurie,
York, England

 

[Adam Morris]

The 6.5-08 provides almost all the juice of the 6.5-284 with a significant advantage in barrel life, has a low recoil pulse, and makes use of the great bullets available in 6.5 mm bore dia. High quality 308 win brass abounds, waiting patiently to be necked down into a first class long range cartridge. My second place picks in order of choice are 30-06, 300 win mag., and lastly 308Win. Adam

 

[Hammer]

.

If one sticks with commercially made bullets like Berger, Sierra, etc...

Does the 6.5mm or the 7mm have a material advantage ?


.

 

[RDavies]

I think the most important thing to ask first, is what are the wind conditions like in your area and what discipline do you shoot? At Bisley F class, all the locals used big 7mms as the slegehamer approach is what works best for them in the tough winds, shooting Bisley style, with a long time between shots.
If 1000yd BR in calm conditions is what you do, then a 6 Dasher, with inherent accuraccy and minumum recoil when cranking off 5 shots in 15 seconds would be king,
There is a lovely calm range (soon to shoot 1000yds) near my place where a 6BR would be great for 1000yd BR, but then the last time I shot 1000yds F class in a different State, I wished I would have had a 7mm Ultra Mag. Depends on the local conditions and rules where you shoot.
What will dominate in the next FCWC? Probably what the locals use in Raton to shoot string fire in F class right now.

 

[confuzed]

I have 6xc's,6.5's but the round that ten different gun builders, hand loaders, and shooters could all do well with and I don't even own one would be the good old .243 win. great subject guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mikecr]

No, the 243 could never be a consistent winner for many.
It's over capacity in 24cal
Nearly perfect in 26cal
Undercapacity in 30cal
But it's a hunting cartridge, with low shoulder angle and high body taper. This leads to constant trimmng, doughnuts, imprecise bumping, and difficult bolt turning. This is one case that would have to be FL sized everytime..

Cartridges based on this case(bigger or smaller) & consistent in competition, have all been improved. That said, I'll back away from this when I see a standard 243 case(in any cal) hold it's own in IBS 1kyd.

 

[FroggyOne2]

do you still live in east tn,if so oak ridge sportsmans assoc.usually has 100 yd practice on mondays.check their wedsite . BW Davis

The last 1000 yard practice as this past monday.. done now till the spring.. But if you live in the area and want to shoot some afternoon.. contact me.