question with muzzle breaks

[Dgd6mm]

My new 6mm Competition Match has a dandy good coldbore shot, here in North Florida. I was shooting it today. This is one of my PRS rifles. MPA muzzle brake 6.5 works great but I'm more partial to MBM muzzle brakes.

 

[johara1]

I'm sorry, but this is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read. Why are brakes exploding? Why are brakes loose? I wouldn't want to be anywhere near wherever you are shooting because it sounds like an insanely dangerous place full of people who have no idea what they are doing. Are you dodging bolts and chamber pieces too? How hot are people loading their rounds to cause jackets to just 'peel' off upon firing? Are the brakes misaligned due to poorly cut muzzle threads and doing the peeling themselves? Did someone figure out how to thread a barrel at a 45 degree angle? The misalignment required to do that with such a short muzzle device, especially as most are sized larger than bore is unfathomable.

I shoot 100% suppressed now, but have shot and taught shooting for decades now around countless people with various muzzle devices from brakes to suppressors at all skill levels, and I've only seen _one_ failure attributed to a muzzle device - it was a suppressor misalignment due to poorly cut muzzle threads which ended with a suppressor being launched downrange. I have never experienced or even heard of incidents like those you are describing, and I don't shoot benchrest nor am I around people shooting benchrest - we're moving around, banging rifles around, shooting from tons of different positions (mostly improvised), and basically doing everything in our power to cause a muzzle device to fail. Find a new club if yours allows people who are constantly talking about their "brakes being loose". That sounds like a sore loser's excuse for shooting a bad group, to me. "I woulda shot a perfect score but my brake was loose!"

I can completely understand not liking the concussion from brakes, especially in enclosed areas (I refuse to shoot at indoor ranges regardless of people using brakes, but also hate shooting in ranges where there are concrete overhangs that redirect blast back at the shooter) - there's definitely an argument to be made about noise/concussion to shooters near you, but talking about exploding and loose brakes is wild. That sounds like a poorly run and scary range full of dangerously ignorant people who have no business being in shooting sports that you would want to be nowhere near, not even in the same zip code.

Brakes have their place, and I completely understand those wanting to use them. I don't personally like being around them (and completely understand not liking the blast), and tend to move if someone parks next to me with a side-ported brake on a 300WM or 338 Lapua Mag. Most people are polite enough to find an open area, and if none are available give a head's up or ask first at my ranges. I also don't expect them to avoid shooting with them or change calibers from those more optimal for the 1760 yard range I shoot at. I'm not that old and my shoulder is already beat up, I don't fault people for trying to save theirs. They also make a HUGE difference vs. un-braked when trying to self-spot or have rapid follow-up shots. Reading the wind has nothing to do with it.

I would guess you don't compete much or any. I have seen Brakes blow up at IBS matches, I have been hit with pieces of of carbon and jackets. At ranges where benches are close the do move the guns beside you out of the scoring rings from the blast.
You said they are legal and that is true but I look at them as a safety hazard also the then are interfering with my time to shoot, that is illegal. The reason is the concussion moves the guns on the benches on both sides plus the disturbed the air on both sides... Not counting the Decibel issue.... jim

 

[ormandj]

I would guess you don't compete much or any. I have seen Brakes blow up at IBS matches, I have been hit with pieces of of carbon and jackets. At ranges where benches are close the do move the guns beside you out of the scoring rings from the blast.
You said they are legal and that is true but I look at them as a safety hazard also the then are interfering with my time to shoot, that is illegal. The reason is the concussion moves the guns on the benches on both sides plus the disturbed the air on both sides... Not counting the Decibel issue.... jim

I don’t understand why your assertion regarding competition is relevant. I’m around competition rifles shooting tens of thousands of rounds a month at ranges hosting active competitions all the time. Rounds downrange are rounds downrange regardless of the scenario. Again, I understand the sentiment regarding blast. Ranges should create more space for shooters; brakes are not going away.

For the life of me - I don’t understand why you are encountering brake failures or being hit by peeling jackets. Someone is doing something VERY wrong if that’s happening. The wording you are using indicates you’ve experienced this with some frequency, which I would assert indicates the shooters at that range/in that discipline are doing something very unsafe. If I was around exploding muzzle devices or being hit with bullet components at the firing line I’d be worried too. That’s not normal for braked rifles, though; something very wrong is going on here.

Are people threading barrels with an angle grinder or something? Attaching them with duct tape? The misalignment of bore to brake bore would have to be astronomically wrong to cause brake strikes, and a properly torqued brake shouldn’t be shooting off bench rifles or even PRS rifles.

 

[Rob01]

Sounds to me that it’s benchrest guys And their equipment who are pretty unsafe. Glad I don’t shoot that sport. LOL Never saw or heard of a brake exploding at a PRS style match in my 17 years of competing.

 

[JEFFPPC]

Perhaps if I feel the need, I will send you a picture of ALL the cold bore X coins have won at matches and yes, even in Florida. If muzzle brakes are your "peeve", I understand rimfire is all the rage these days. Perhaps you should look into it.

I was trying to inject a bit of humor into the back and forth between the two of us regarding your screen name and where you reside. Actually I find the cold bore shot very interesting as a part of competition. I know from shooting 1000yd br it's a whole different aspect of shooting long range. My thoughts are directed towards the BR game as at many if not most ranges muzzle brakes do interfear with the shooters either side of the brake. Good shooting, be sure and vote in Nov. and push all the folks you know who don't to do so or we will be at the precipice of no shooting sports.

 

[Dgd6mm]

Sounds to me that it’s benchrest guys And their equipment who are pretty unsafe. Glad I don’t shoot that sport. LOL Never saw or heard of a brake exploding at a PRS style match in my 17 years of competing.

AND YOU SHOOT WITH A HECK OF A LOT MORE SHOOTERS! MAJORITY ARE SHOOTING BRAKES, AND MORE ROUNDS DOWN RANGE!

 

[coldboreshot]

I was trying to inject a bit of humor into the back and forth between the two of us regarding your screen name and where you reside. Actually I find the cold bore shot very interesting as a part of competition. I know from shooting 1000yd br it's a whole different aspect of shooting long range. My thoughts are directed towards the BR game as at many if not most ranges muzzle brakes do interfear with the shooters either side of the brake. Good shooting, be sure and vote in Nov. and push all the folks you know who don't to do so or we will be at the precipice of no shooting sports.

Sounds to me that it’s benchrest guys And their equipment who are pretty unsafe. Glad I don’t shoot that sport. LOL Never saw or heard of a brake exploding at a PRS style match in my 17 years of competing.

Interesting thought Rob01. I think I am going to move on to a debate over the evils of barrel tuners somewhere.

 

[johara1]

Big difference in Br. and what the tactical guys do, BR is about accuracy. You guys send a lot of rounds down range and you are away from everyone, 1/2" will get you by. That is 5" at 1000..... I can't see very good yet from surgery, I need some time to recuperate .... jim

 

[Rob01]

No not always away from everyone. Sometimes you are shooting near other shooters. No we aren't sitting at benches but also not always away from others either.

 

[JEFFPPC]

Funny how this has turned political, go along with the current popular idea or get attacked. Sorry , I have my thought, and yes this is still the USA, so I will exercise my right to disagree, as you may also. No need to attack and make it personal but it seems that is where this is headed. If it makes you fell better, have at it but we need to be having discussions of different points of view not making crazy statements and disparaging another style of shooting. I am disappointed in how this thread has deteriorated. I would be happy if the moderates took this thread down just to stop the venom.

 

[Rob01]

LOL Venom? This has been a pretty calm thread. Just people don’t agree with you and no one has seen these exploding brakes. As you said we can exercise our right to disagree with you too.

 

[outasite`08]

I bet the forum boss spends alot on thread locks. Oh,by the way,I have competed in several matches that started with a clod bore shot, even in warm weather. Cold bore/Clean bore that`s why we note a CBS in our data books. Jeff

 

[Mark W]

Before getting into shooting I dabbled in several amateur level sports from drag racing to bass fishing and pool tournaments. In each one I’ve encountered people like Jeff who feel like others who are simply following the rules are somehow gaining and advantage over themselves. This is exactly the kind of behavior that that has kept me from participating in organized shooting of any form.

Next thread we can talk about why participation in the sport is shrinking.

 

[mac86951]

Sounds like 'lots of shooters' are setting their brake bore to lands or grooves.

To the OP, yes overbore brakes work, but effectivity is reduced at an increased rate. IE brake for 45cal works with 9mm; but not as much. All the places I've found with off the shelf install ready muzzle brakes have a minimum 0.020" over major diameter of caliber bore on the break. I see a lot of "tuners" and benchrest places with a clear disclaimer; must bore out brake before use. Something makes me suspect that benchrest guys are boring too close to bullet diam.
Is this really an issue? Well, any serious benchrester won't be shooting very long with jacket parts peeling off of bullets. Likewise, can they be dangerous? Sure thing, those expanding gasses can get small pieces of anything moving fast. Shoot a radial bake when laying prone and tell me that the ground below you isn't disturbed. That said; I'm not keen on standing in front of and directly next to the shooter with a brake; but one bench over? Not a concern for me. Ear protection being the biggest difference. Not being rude is next; I'm not starting with 338LM when I know the range is busy; or I'll have chats with those around me and push muzzle farther forward if setup allows.

 

[Dgd6mm]

For those of you that have never shot a PRS match, you haven't got a glue on some shooting stages.

 

[Evan]

when running 6mm and below if you run a 6.5 muzzle break is it as affective as a 6mm muzzlebreak

A whole bunch of info and nice articles on precision rifle blog, if you're not aware: https://precisionrifleblog.com/?s=muzzle+brakes

Not sure how this turned into an argument over not using brakes. The OP didn't say a thing about what he was wanting it for. Just a simple question about effectiveness when using a larger brake on a smaller caliber.

Just to put my .02 in since the lid is off the cookie jar: my RPR had a brake. All my friends would ask me if I was bringing it out to shoot. If I said yes, they said they weren't coming out. Brakes are anti-social and unnecessary and won't be on any of my rifles. I value a good time with my friends and happily make that sacrifice so that my friends and my wife will continue to enjoy shooting guns with me. No laws or rules about farting in someone's face but it doesn't make it polite or considerate to do so.

 

[JEFFPPC]

Before getting into shooting I dabbled in several amateur level sports from drag racing to bass fishing and pool tournaments. In each one I’ve encountered people like Jeff who feel like others who are simply following the rules are somehow gaining and advantage over themselves. This is exactly the kind of behavior that that has kept me from participating in organized shooting of any form.

Next thread we can talk about why participation in the sport is shrinking.

Mark just a little history and I am a benchrest shooter so I speak from that prospective. In IBS short range brakes are not allowed. I am not sure about NBRSA. ,There are many times more more local club matches, and here in Pa Ground hog matches. These are the matches I shoot the most because there are so many more of them.While I do be live there can be safety issues involved with muzzle brakes that worries me less than many other things, just driving 2 hrs each way to a match I am sure is much more dangerous. My gripe is they often interferes one way or another with other shooters on either side of them, and what makes be laugh is when you suggest let all the brakes shoot together there is a great outcry. In the shooting I do I don't see them giving an advantage per say except rocking my scope out of the scoring rings and certianly not helping when my bullet must travel through muzzle brake blast. If I wait for them to shoot first which I oten do, now I limit my time and opportunity. Am I cautious, here is a quick tale. A local club started combat pistol shooting under one of the national groups. Sounded like fun, I went to observe a match. When I left I was asked if I was shooting the next match, I replied no someone is going to get shot, it's not going to be me. They laughed. Next match guy shot himself through the thigh. When I am trying to keep my shots inside a 1 inch 10 ring at 500 yds, no I don't want to deal with a muzzle brake on either side of me.

 

[ormandj]

Mark just a little history and I am a benchrest shooter so I speak from that prospective. In IBS short range brakes are not allowed. I am not sure about NBRSA. ,There are many times more more local club matches, and here in Pa Ground hog matches. These are the matches I shoot the most because there are so many more of them.While I do be live there can be safety issues involved with muzzle brakes that worries me less than many other things, just driving 2 hrs each way to a match I am sure is much more dangerous. My gripe is they often interferes one way or another with other shooters on either side of them, and what makes be laugh is when you suggest let all the brakes shoot together there is a great outcry. In the shooting I do I don't see them giving an advantage per say except rocking my scope out of the scoring rings and certianly not helping when my bullet must travel through muzzle brake blast. If I wait for them to shoot first which I oten do, now I limit my time and opportunity. Am I cautious, here is a quick tale. A local club started combat pistol shooting under one of the national groups. Sounded like fun, I went to observe a match. When I left I was asked if I was shooting the next match, I replied no someone is going to get shot, it's not going to be me. They laughed. Next match guy shot himself through the thigh. When I am trying to keep my shots inside a 1 inch 10 ring at 500 yds, no I don't want to deal with a muzzle brake on either side of me.

It seems like every range you go to is full of people with terrible equipment, terrible range setups, terrible management, and absolutely terrifyingly unsafe people.

 

[JEFFPPC]

So today at a match I got to shoot between a 6.5SAUM and a 300 Win mag both with brakes, of course. My 500 yd groups were pretty much the same as their 300 yd groups, better than theirs actually. Switchy high winds cold.So when I left with 2 relays out of 6 yet to be posted,
I was in first place of this 2 day shot. Approx 90 plus guns. So why do I get unhappy about others crutches? Lot of nice equipment from top smiths across the country, some who participate here. So, any intelligent comments , or maybe more rude ones for the betterment of our sport? Some comments remind me of the Dems, nothing to add so lie and be rude, that's it.

 

[ormandj]

So, any intelligent comments , or maybe more rude ones for the betterment of our sport? Some comments remind me of the Dems, nothing to add so lie and be rude, that's it.