Precision matthews 1440 2sm

[xr650rRider]

PM-1440-2SM 14″x40″ Gunsmith Lathe – Precision Matthews Machinery Co.

www.precisionmatthews.com

I only read far enough to see it wasn't a Taiwan machine. It also doesn't list max spindle runout = .0001". So I'll take the precision without the spider included. Good first project is to build a spider.

 

[Sniperhandle]

I only read far enough to see it wasn't a Taiwan machine. It also doesn't list max spindle runout = .0001". So I'll take the precision without the spider included. Good first project is to build a spider.

There is a video by a well respected F-Classer while he is at his Gunsmith's shop and his Gunsmith is using a Chinese Grizzly, Just as Gordy Gritters used for years. Chinese machines can put out good work with the right Injun in front of it. Are they as nice as the Taiwan machines? Maybe not, But they are plenty good enough.

 

[Bamban]

There is a video by a well respected F-Classer while he is at his Gunsmith's shop and his Gunsmith is using a Chinese Grizzly, Just as Gordy Gritters used for years. Chinese machines can put out good work with the right Injun in front of it. Are they as nice as the Taiwan machines? Maybe not, But they are plenty good enough.

When I was working with Shiraz on the 1st March service rifle scope (facilitated by @butchlambert ), I asked him, of all the lathes at his disposal, which one is he using in his home shop. He directed me to this model. No idea what Gordy use, it could be the same one. Listed as gunsmithing lathe.

 

[Konocti's Wigwam]

I only read far enough to see it wasn't a Taiwan machine. It also doesn't list max spindle runout = .0001". So I'll take the precision without the spider included. Good first project is to build a spider.

No argument from me, a piece of DOM is not that expensive. I don't really have a problem with the Chinese machines. Not in regard to any work they do. Those machines are plenty accurate enough for most gunsmith work.

That said, all of our miles vary, I would take a nice mill before a nice lathe. Especially if I didn't have a lathe, one of those PM SM lathes would be welcome.

There is a video by a well respected F-Classer while he is at his Gunsmith's shop and his Gunsmith is using a Chinese Grizzly, Just as Gordy Gritters used for years. Chinese machines can put out good work with the right Injun in front of it. Are they as nice as the Taiwan machines? Maybe not, But they are plenty good enough.

To be fair, seems Gritters was using Grizzly lathes prior to the Gunsmith versions. I plan to chamber a few barrels on a '58 South Bend 10L with a 4' bed. That's not a very elaborate machine. Gritters has a lot of useful tips and tricks. I have the Zeglin/Gritters "Chambering Rifles for Accuracy" book.

 

[Sniperhandle]

No argument from me, a piece of DOM is not that expensive. I don't really have a problem with the Chinese machines. Not in regard to any work they do. Those machines are plenty accurate enough for most gunsmith work.

That said, all of our miles vary, I would take a nice mill before a nice lathe. Especially if I didn't have a lathe, one of those PM SM lathes would be welcome.



To be fair, seems Gritters was using Grizzly lathes prior to the Gunsmith versions. I plan to chamber a few barrels on a '58 South Bend 10L with a 4' bed. That's not a very elaborate machine. Gritters has a lot of useful tips and tricks. I have the Zeglin/Gritters "Chambering Rifles for Accuracy" book.

I met and talked with Gordy at the Shot Show in Las Vegas probably 15 years ago, He had a Grizzly Lathe set up there and was demonstrating it for Grizzly.

 

[Konocti's Wigwam]

When I was working with Shiraz on the 1st March service rifle scope, I asked him, of all the lathes at his disposal, which one is he using in his home shop. He directed me to this model. No idea what Gordy use, it could be the same one.

That's one of the newer models, I think.

As @Sniperhandle pointed out, they are about 1500 lbs. lighter than some of the Taiwan 1440 lathes that are tried and proven. Those Grizzlies are about 1550 lbs. in their entirety.

This doesn't mean you can't do nice work on them.

 

[Sniperhandle]

That's one of the newer models, I think.

As @Sniperhandle pointed out, they are about 1500 lbs. lighter than some of the Taiwan 1440 lathes that are tried and proven. Those Grizzlies are about 1550 lbs. in their entirety.

This doesn't mean you can't do nice work on them.

Actually the one Nez posted there is 3300 pounds and is a 16 inch swing.

Even the Taiwan 1440 lathes that PM sells are light duty ones and weigh in at less than 1500 pounds.

 

[Konocti's Wigwam]

Actually the one Nez posted there is 3300 pounds and is a 16 inch swing.

Even the Taiwan 1440 lathes that PM sells are light duty ones and weigh in at less than 1500 pounds.

But if you look at the 1440 Grizzly it's 1550 lbs. The 16" lathe is quite a bit bigger, so yeah, it's 2x the weight.

I was just trying to point out that weight isn't everything, and mainland China doesn't mean it's a bad machine. I have a few import machines, a couple Jet machines (drill and band saw), Wilton horizontal band saw, et al...I have mostly old American vintage iron.

 

[shortgrass]

The first chambers I cut were done using a South Bend H10. A bench lathe ('70s vintage)..... Probably doesn't weigh 1000lbs. , maybe 1200 with the cabinet. I cut 5 different chambers using 5 different blanks and chamber size was the same as the reamer. Weight ain't everything! If owning 1 lathe for mostly GS work, 10" swing ain't enough! A dandy little machine for chambering, but limited for tool making. But, I almost forgot, most here buy what tools they think they need instead of making them!

 

[AccelR8]

LeBlonde doesn't support their lathes

5 years ago or so, for a cross feed screw and nut they quoted 1,200.00. I've forgotten what model the lathe was, it was a Royal and might have been a 20" IIRC.

We sold the lathe as-is to a guy who rebuilds and resells.

 

[Bamban]

That's one of the newer models, I think.

As @Sniperhandle pointed out, they are about 1500 lbs. lighter than some of the Taiwan 1440 lathes that are tried and proven. Those Grizzlies are about 1550 lbs. in their entirety.

This doesn't mean you can't do nice work on them.

I am quite certain is the same model Shiraz pointed out to me, as I thought about buying one back them. I just did not want to deal with D1-6 stuff.

 

[Konocti's Wigwam]

The first chambers I cut were done using a South Bend H10. A bench lathe ('70s vintage)..... Probably doesn't weigh 1000lbs. , maybe 1200 with the cabinet. I cut 5 different chambers using 5 different blanks and chamber size was the same as the reamer. Weight ain't everything! If owning 1 lathe for mostly GS work, 10" swing ain't enough! A dandy little machine for chambering, but limited for tool making. But, I almost forgot, most here buy what tools they think they need instead of making them!

Completely agree. It is why I've been planning to use my H10 for just that. I had bought a complete H10 w/threaded spindle, but then ran across the other at auction. The 2nd one has metric transposition gears, so can cut both metric and imperial.

All that said, there's more to being a gunsmith besides chambers, and most all of it requires a mill. I've got that covered.

 

[Konocti's Wigwam]

I am quite certain is the same model Shiraz pointed out to me, as I thought about buying one back them. I just did not want to deal with D1-6 stuff.

The D1-6 is definitely the 16" lathe. That is one big spindle taper...pair it up with a 12" chuck, and it's time to get a small jib crane or similar to install and remove chucks.

 

[shortgrass]

All that said, there's more to being a gunsmith besides chambers, and most all of it requires a mill. I've got that covered.

I am a gunsmith school graduate. Class of '93, Montgomery Community College, Troy, N.C. I also have a few NRA Summer Gunsmithing classes 'under my belt', including ; Gun Stock Checkering, taught by Joe Balickie (took that class twice), The Custom S&W Revolver, taught by Ron Power, and Color Case Hardening, as taught @ Murry State. I had 16yrs of mostly job shop machining experience before enrolling in GS in '91 (I spent a couple of yrs running production in a major bearing manufacturer plant, multiple spindle automatic 'screw' machines). I have continued job shop machining and gunsmithing since. 'Light milling" (like making an extractor cut on a 03 or Model 70) can be accomplished with a milling attachment on a lathe. Heavier work needs a dedicated milling machine. "Gunsmithing" is 'tons' of hand work, machining a small part of the trade, but that is what most here concentrate on, machining and chambering. So go ahead and explain more to me about "gunsmithing", I still make a stock by hand from a blank, occasionally..

 

[Konocti's Wigwam]

Heavier work needs a dedicated milling machine. "Gunsmithing" is 'tons' of hand work, machining a small part of the trade, but that is what most here concentrate on, machining and chambering. So go ahead and explain more to me about "gunsmithing", I still make a stock by hand from a blank, occasionally..

Well, I never claimed to be a professional gunsmith. I have tried my hand at checkering and I know why you took a 2nd class after the first.

For the work I've done which is mostly 1911s, I have done most all of the work on a mill. Any type of sight work is done on a mill. Small parts I will use a hand file. This has nothing to do with a lathe. And that is my point. You can get a lathe, and you can jack yourself around and cut the extractor on a milling attachment for your lathe, but I don't have one because I don't use my lathe like that.

It sounds like what you do works for you. In the end that's what matters.

 

[shortgrass]

Well, I never claimed to be a professional gunsmith. I have tried my hand at checkering and I know why you took a 2nd class after the first.

For the work I've done which is mostly 1911s, I have done most all of the work on a mill. Any type of sight work is done on a mill. Small parts I will use a hand file. This has nothing to do with a lathe. And that is my point. You can get a lathe, and you can jack yourself around and cut the extractor on a milling attachment for your lathe, but I don't have one because I don't use my lathe like that.

It sounds like what you do works for you. In the end that's what matters.

I don't use a milling attachment on my lathe, I have an Index vertical mill. Also had checking instruction from the stock

All that said, there's more to being a gunsmith besides chambers, and most all of it requires a mill. I've got that covered.

making instructor in GS school, as well as in depth instruction on S&W revolvers during advanced repair. (that included removing that broken hammer/trigger stud and installing new) The encoder took a dump on the 10x54 CNC mill, but when the X axis motor with new encoder comes back I'll write a simple program and find the opportunity to straight flute. I've already straight fluted on manual horizontal and vertical. That said it takes more than a lathe and a mill to be a "gunsmith", even though you have that "covered".

 

[Konocti's Wigwam]

I don't use a milling attachment on my lathe, I have an Index vertical mill. Also had checking instruction from the stock


making instructor in GS school, as well as in depth instruction on S&W revolvers during advanced repair. (that included removing that broken hammer/trigger stud and installing new) The encoder took a dump on the 10x54 CNC mill, but when the X axis motor with new encoder comes back I'll write a simple program and find the opportunity to straight flute. I've already straight fluted on manual horizontal and vertical. That said it takes more than a lathe and a mill to be a "gunsmith", even though you have that "covered".

You seem to have everything covered, from machines to skills to know-how.

Damn, that's impressive. I strive to be at your level. If you were in front of me, I'd probably bow at your feet.

 

[Sniperhandle]

You seem to have everything covered, from machines to skills to know-how.

Damn, that's impressive. I strive to be at your level. If you were in front of me, I'd probably bow at your feet.

Ted (Shortgrass) Is a very good Gunsmith, Every Gunsmith has his own Strong Points and style.

Here is a video from F-Class John with his Gunsmith Terry Balding. Like I said every Gunsmith has his own style and some might not agree with his methods but it doesn't matter his rifles have several World Records under them, But my point with linking this video is he uses a $7500.00 Grizzly G0709 1440 Lathe made in China and he is putting out good work with it.

 

[Konocti's Wigwam]

Ted (Shortgrass) Is a very good Gunsmith, Every Gunsmith has his own Strong Points and style.

I'm sure he is, but I will never know for certain, that much I do know. For me it's all about doing it myself. People like that can poo-poo me while I blow my face up, it's my own choice that really shouldn't bother him at all. But he is obviously got a bone to pick, and he can have it.

PS - Gritters has a lot of videos, sells books, DVDs and used Chinese lathes for years. I don't own very many machines or tooling made in China. Some yes, but it is by far in the minority of my shop and I plan to keep it that way in my new shop. This is not meant to dis anyone using Chinese machines, it's just not my preference.

 

[Sniperhandle]

I'm sure he is, but I will never know for certain, that much I do know. For me it's all about doing it myself. People like that can poo-poo me while I blow my face up, it's my own choice that really shouldn't bother him at all. But he is obviously got a bone to pick, and he can have it.

PS - Gritters has a lot of videos, sells books, DVDs and used Chinese lathes for years. I don't own very many machines or tooling made in China. Some yes, but it is by far in the minority of my shop and I plan to keep it that way in my new shop. This is not meant to dis anyone using Chinese machines, it's just not my preference.

I understand about the China thing, I don't like it either, But I have had people tell me they don't buy anything that's made in China, I laugh and tell them if you threw away everything in your house that was made in China, You would be sitting on the floor reading a book.

I remember people saying Taiwan stuff was junk, And some of it was. When we were kids the saying was Japanese junk, Well the best micrometers and cordless drills and Cars come from Japan and like it or not the Chinese stuff is getting better all the time. Even the stuff that says made in USA is made with Chinese parts.

A while back there was a discussion on reamers from Serbia and one Gentleman said I don't buy stuff from overseas I buy American, To Which I replied, You have no problem buying Chinese DeWalt's and Privi Partizan Ammo from Serbia.

I have bought some Serbian reamers and they are of High Quality by the way. Because of the Ukraine War you can't get them anymore though.

And you will like Shortgrass once you are around long enough to know him.