New 6.8x51 (.277 Cal) Military Cartridge

[Walt Krafft]

Back to the purpose of my question, I wonder if/when 6.8x51 will become a caliber approved for shooting F-TR? I see a lot of benefits in the 7 mm bullet.

It is not a 7mm bullet. It is a 270 caliber .277 dia bullet. The SAAMI name is 277 Sig Fury.

 

[Ringostar]

Back to the purpose of my question, I wonder if/when 6.8x51 will become a caliber approved for shooting F-TR? I see a lot of benefits in the 7 mm bullet.

It’s not likely to happen. F class was started in Canada and FTR was restricted to nato cartridges. Then it’s equal to others around the world. We’ll see in the future if this cartridge works out for the US military. Then it could still be quite a while to see if nato would adopt it.

 

[ggshoots]

I've been reading up on this a little more and sounds like the big push is for one ammo, all weapons. IN theory sounds great, in reality not so great. Pushing the individual troop weapon to a heavier unit, 5lbs more approx. with the use of the new scope that is also ordered for them will push it to weights that will strain many of the female and smaller combat soldiers. When factoring in weight of carrying the same ammo count that is quite a bit more yet but I'm assuming they will cut back the issued amount. The gain would be in trajectory and stopping power, stopping power. I would have thought a cartridge design on the lines of the 6ARC or others able to use the AR15 platform lower unit and components would have been a much cheaper and weight wise better change but what do I know. It would have increased bullet weight and max range drastically along with stopping power increasing quite a bit from the 5.56. This would have countered some of the improvements that our historical enemies have made in their personal armor yet still allowed a weapon with weight characteristics similar to current weapons with a slight drop in max load capacity.

The weapon I think is a true gain would be the Machinegun version. I was a M60 gunner for 1 1/2 years and when jumping with A 26.5 lb. weapon, full load of ammo, full ruck, LBE, helmet and and various other gear as well as your primary chute, reserve and gear I figured 130lbs was total load. This isn't something easily carried and a reduction of 10 plus pounds on machine gun, I believe its weight is right at 15.5lbs, lighter combat gear and lighter ammo load would be a plus. The new weapon is even supposed to be a little lighter than the current SAW but you would still deal with the change in round count and weight. The M60 was basically used to 1300m for qualification and I believe this will make 1200 so very comparable. I have been out of the service for a while so on current weapons I'm sure I am far from being an expert. Other units probably issued differently than my unit did.

I believe it was asked about Primers and if I am not mistaken Sig is developing a plant for primer production but not quite there. My concern is one company manufacturing from A to Z in its entirety. Can we say that some people may be getting very very wealthy off this change and I believe that some of those may very well be politicians. Hopefully other companies will be allowed to copy this design for the military but that is not something I have seen. I hope the change over works well as it sounds like its a pretty firm deal now. If it doesn't the taxpayers and even more importantly our soldiers will be the ones to pay the price. Something this Admin cares nothing about sadly.

God bless our troops and America

 

[Bamban]

How about this for a moment?

77 SMK with penetrator tip up front like the M855A1. Hybrid 5.56 case to run at 80K. It has been proven the MK262 shoot real well.

From what I read the SAW gunner with 6.8x51 will give up about 200 rounds for close to equivalent load out weight with the current weapon.

For sure the 6.8x51 is an interesting cartridge.

 

[Ggmac]

Germany had a case design like this in WW2 , steel base and brass body . Used for high pressure / velocity . I hope this case design continues to develop and could have bases with interchangeable brass cases in other body offerings, 22-250 , 243 , 308 , 7-08 etc all using the solid base .

 

[CJ6]

Sizing the base could be a chore. Having inter-changeable bodies could be expensive and how many shots before failure?

 

[Walt Krafft]

Sizing the base is a chore and makes reloading when loaded to the high pressure iffy. The brass is swaged to the head during manufacture. It can not be removed or changed. Increasing the pressure of existing SAAMI rounds is probably not going to happen.

 

[358WCF]

Germany had a case design like this in WW2 , steel base and brass body . Used for high pressure / velocity . I hope this case design continues to develop and could have bases with interchangeable brass cases in other body offerings, 22-250 , 243 , 308 , 7-08 etc all using the solid base .

You missed your chance. In the '80s a company called O'Connor Steel Heads, or something similar, made these available to handloaders. The ads in gun mags just kind of faded away shortly after they appeared. This, in turn, was preceded by US Army testing in the 30s I believe. JO'C or Elmer Keith or Col. Whelen or maybe all three wrote about them.

And the world keeps turning...

 

[Davidheart]

It is not a 7mm bullet. It is a 270 caliber .277 dia bullet. The SAAMI name is 277 Sig Fury.

Still better than a 30..... and technically .277 is a truer 7mm projectile than .280...

 

[sw282]

Germany had the best ctgs in WWll. 7.93x57 and 7.93x33 short. Russians ''improved'' it with 7.62x39.
US has been ''improving'' both ever since

 

[uncle fester]

30-06 would still do anything these will with twist and the right bullets? Nothing was wrong with the .308 either. I have to admit 6.5x47 would be a real good choice......

30-06" requires a long action. Thus, any battle rifle would need to be heavier. 308 - is fine, but this round is designed to outperform it while being lighter than the 308.

 

[uncle fester]

Germany had the best ctgs in WWll. 7.93x57 and 7.93x33 short. Russians ''improved'' it with 7.62x39.
US has been ''improving'' both ever since

The best cartridge of WWII was the 6.5 Swede. There is a reason the 6.5CM duplicates it in a short action.

 

[sw282]

The best cartridge of WWII was the 6.5 Swede. There is a reason the 6.5CM duplicates it in a short action.

7.93x57 Mauser was the best. 13 million dead Red Army troops can't be wrong

 

[uncle fester]

7.93x57 Mauser was the best. 13 million dead Red Army troops can't be wrong

By that logic, the 7.62x53R was a great cartridge because of how many Germans it killed. Indeed, the Russians still use it (because they are frugal). It was not and is not a great cartridge.

 

[DaveTooley]

I guess many of you haven't gone in harms way. With the proliferation of body armor the 5.56 has proven to be less than effective. Even the 7.62 is lacking at distance. The requirement was/is to penetrate level 4 body armor at 600 yds. That takes speed and a bullet with a diameter large enough for the development of special purpose rounds. Thus .277". Traditional cup and core bullets are at a disadvantage in modern warfare when the rubber meets the road.

 

[Herzo]

Looking at the dimensions of the case and comparing it to the 7.62mm (.308) family of cartridges, it would not be a major problem to develop a reduced performance all brass cartridge for the rifle that would be comparable to the 260 Remington.

 

[CJ6]

Looking at the dimensions of the case and comparing it to the 7.62mm (.308) family of cartridges, it would not be a major problem to develop a reduced performance all brass cartridge for the rifle that would be comparable to the 260 Remington.

Sig already has a "normal" pressure load that is all brass. I believe it's a 135 gr open tip.

 

[Brians356]

I guess many of you haven't gone in harms way. With the proliferation of body armor the 5.56 has proven to be less than effective. Even the 7.62 is lacking at distance. The requirement was/is to penetrate level 4 body armor at 600 yds.

If you can't penetrate 'em, burn 'em. Why not just fill a few bullets with white phosphorus? Pass the bubbly "for that special occasion".
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