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Long range load development at 100 yards.

Thanks for the very informative thread, as a relatively new long range shooter it's really helping shape my thinking about load development. If you have a minute, would you take a look at my recent thread titled Pressure Signs in the reloading forum and give me your opinion on the window I am planning to test groups at? And on anything else in there for that matter :)

Thanks,
Matt
 
Erik, may I have your thoughts for a sec? I'm reading this post since beginning of this week. Just got to page 22, and man.... Nice post.... Tons and tons of information.

I don't know if someone already asked and I'm (you can say) more or less new to all of this.

If I tune my load and have one that is good, and after that I change something like the head pressure neck tension (thank you Erik for the correction ;)) let us assume 0.001 or .002 would it mean I have to redo the test?

Other example if you shoot the brass several times and you do only head sizing, would a fl sizing cause issues in the developed load/note?

Same with the powder lot change?

Maybe dum questions, if so..... Sorry ;-)
 
antifaz2006 said:
Erik, may I have your thoughts for a sec? I'm reading this post since beginning of this week. Just got to page 22, and man.... Nice post.... Tons and tons of information.

I don't know if someone already asked and I'm (you can say) more or less new to all of this.

If I tune my load and have one that is good, and after that I change something like the head pressure by let us assume 0.001 or .002 would it mean I have to redo the test?

Other example if you shoot the brass several times and you do only head sizing, would a fl sizing cause issues in the developed load/note?

Same with the powder lot change?

Maybe dum questions, if so..... Sorry ;-)

I'm going to assume that by head pressure you mean neck tension.

All those questions were answered somewhere between page 22 and page 34. ;D

Joking aside, if you have a good load you should check accuracy if neck tension is changed because it will sometimes affect the load.

I don't think F/L sizing will affect it much if you are in the middle of the window, but I recommend that you F/L size every time for more consistent results.
 
When I was shooting long range matches from the '60's through the 90's, I never worked up a load for any of my 30 caliber rifles; .308 Win. and .30-.338 Win Mag. I just used the same loads the winners and record setters used in unprepped cases sorted to a 1 grain weight spread (except for uniforming case necks) . Powder weighed to a 1/10th grain spread and bullets with .002" runout seated out to touch the lands. They all shot under 3/4 MOA at 1000 yards and nothing's any better these days. Won my share of the matches and was classified NRA LR HIgh Master. Long range accuracy's not improve any significant amount since the early 1970's. Check out the biggest groups shot in LR benchrest many-group agg's that winners produce and what the records are.

Full length sizing bumping shoulders back a thousandth or two always produced the best accuracy for me when cases headspaced on their shoulders. Using standard dies with necks lapped out to a couple thousanths under a loaded round's neck diameter worked fine. Belted cases needed a body die used after regular full length sizing to get the body sized down completely back to the belt.
 
Erik Cortina said:
I'm going to assume that by head pressure you mean neck tension.

All those questions were answered somewhere between page 22 and page 34. ;D

Joking aside, if you have a good load you should check accuracy if neck tension is changed because it will sometimes affect the load.

I don't think F/L sizing will affect it much if you are in the middle of the window, but I recommend that you F/L size every time for more consistent results.

;D non native speaker using words ;D yea neck tension....... I will come to that pages sooner or later. But THANK YOU for not letting me waiting ;) lol ... Looking forward to Saturday and checking out if I understood everything :o
 
Bart
Do you know what the dimensions are of the X and Ten ring are on theLong Range Fclass target? 3/4 MOA ammo, Shooter, and gun will not get you squat.

RT
 
Hi Bart,in f class,F tr, or F open not having a 1/2 moa rig that being load and rifle combo will get the poop beat out of you before you leave the drive way!
 
Hi Erik,
The other day you had replied to my question regarding the "JAM" that was also deleted during the refresh. You had replied that you would load a round, Maybe dummy round?, that was coated with sizing lube. Can you talk again about that process? I had looked at the reply on my phone and only saw for a moment. I got a call and when I reopened the internet again, my cell refreshed where those 2 or 3 messages were removed. If you could please add that back with the steps you use to collect that measurement?
 
I load a bullet long on a prepped case (same as you use for load development). Apply die wax to bullet and close the bolt. Snap bolt open and extract round. Measure new measurement and that is your JAM. Measure back from there for testing. Do this on three or four cases to verify. Then pull bullets, load powder and primers, and use them for fowlers to keep brass on same rotation as the rest.
 
Eric, when finding jam do you ever get the bullet stuck in the rifling? I can't seem to find jam, dang bullet keeps getting pulled.
Alex
 
I just read this entire thread and realize I've been doing it wrong. I have been ladder testing at 300 and it was a PITA. I'm going to try Erik's method and see what I get.
 
SWThomas said:
I just read this entire thread and realize I've been doing it wrong. I have been ladder testing at 300 and it was a PITA. I'm going to try Erik's method and see what I get.

You could try one of these.

http://www.brownells.com/reloading/measuring-tools/bullet-seating-depth-tools/sinclair-bullet-seating-depth-tool-prod35491.aspx
 
zfastmalibu said:
Eric, when finding jam do you ever get the bullet stuck in the rifling? I can't seem to find jam, dang bullet keeps getting pulled.
Alex

That's what the die wax is for as well as snapping the bolt open.

If bullet gets stuck, seat it a little deeper and try again.
 
Started all over one more time as I ran out or VV165 and not any around me so I found a couple of #'s of H4831. Was able to get the chrono data this time.

 
I started load development on my new Wildcat. It's a .300 WSM with shoulder blown forward about .030", changed shoulder angle to 40 degrees, and decreased body taper by .002". They are modest improvements but enough to accomplish my goal of lowering pressure at same speed.

So far the results are promising. The accuracy window appears to be very wide.

Next step is to work on seating depth.

 
johnnyi said:
Started all over one more time as I ran out or VV165 and not any around me so I found a couple of #'s of H4831. Was able to get the chrono data this time.


Pressure at 47.4g?

To me, your scatter group looks to be at target F or 46.8g. It looks like a scatter to me because you have 2 holes at the previous POI and one hole at your new POI of 47.4g. Also, target G your POIs are moving down the page to the new POI at 47.4g. Therefore your nodes (OCW anyway) should by 1.5% higher or lower than that group which would equate to 46.1g and 47.5g. The 46.1g group area does not look promising because the POI is different than the groups before and after. The 47.5g group does look promising but you need to shoot above the 47.4g group if you do not have pressure to see if the 47.8g group has a similar POI to the 47.4g group.
 
I doubt he has pressure at 47.4 since most match loads with 6.5-284 and H4831 are above 50 gr.

My advise is to keep working up to higher powder charge and see how it performs. Stop immediately if you encounter any signs of over pressure.
 

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