Long range load development at 100 yards.

[comagutsa]

Is there anyone who has done long range load testing at 100 yards have a target from 600yd & 1000yd to post side by side for comparison??

i have my load testing a few pages back and i had .2 and .3 inch groups at 100meters with my 243 and i pulled the 1 at touching the lands


i then used that load at 500m on fly shoot the other day and got best group 1st round before wind came in of 2.026 inches (but 4 were under an inch, the number 1's)
also scores 55.1 for that round , finished the day with 205.4

 

[300 RUM]

Is there anyone who has done long range load testing at 100 yards have a target from 600yd & 1000yd to post side by side for comparison??

i have my load testing a few pages back and i had .2 and .3 inch groups at 100meters with my 243 and i pulled the 1 at touching the lands


Which seating depth did you use

i then used that load at 500m on fly shoot the other day and got best group 1st round before wind came in of 2.026 inches (but 4 were under an inch, the number 1's)
also scores 55.1 for that round , finished the day with 205.4

 

[comagutsa]

after a bit more testing because i pulled the one touching the lands i ended up using .003 jam as .005 jam and touch were hitting in the same plane and i got good .2-.3 groups

 

[Link]

Erik maybe you can help

Gun 6br, 14 twist hart LV, new chamber, 68 gr bullet, H4895, CCI 400, 010 jump, 7 mph wind at 6 o'clock.
6 targets, 100 yd. 3 shots each.
#1=29.3 / 2=29.6 / 3=29.9 / 4=30.2 / 5=30.5 / 6=30.8 /
primers looked ok bolt lift ok. Did I go high enough on the powder charge?

Thanks Link

 

[Tzed250]

This is my first try at developing an accuracy load for a rifle. It is a low buck effort.
I know I won't be shooting any true long range with this rifle, but I figured effective load work up counts no matter what the range.
Remington XR-100 purchased used. .223REM, barrel shortened and re-crowned at 22" by the previous owner, 1/12 twist, bedded but no pillars. Unertl 1.5 20X glass.

The ammo is fully prepped LC13, fire formed then loaded for the third time to start the testing. Sierra 52gr HPBTMK. Powder used was Hodgdon H335, CCI400 primer. No wind flags, no chrono data.

POA is the same for all bulls. I would like the groups opinion about the charge weight test before I post the targets from the seating depth test. Thanks!!


XR-100 by zweitakt250, on Flickr


XR-100 by zweitakt250, on Flickr

 

[Erik Cortina]

Erik maybe you can help

Gun 6br, 14 twist hart LV, new chamber, 68 gr bullet, H4895, CCI 400, 010 jump, 7 mph wind at 6 o'clock.
6 targets, 100 yd. 3 shots each.
#1=29.3 / 2=29.6 / 3=29.9 / 4=30.2 / 5=30.5 / 6=30.8 /
primers looked ok bolt lift ok. Did I go high enough on the powder charge?

Thanks Link

4, 5 & 6 look good.

 

[ericbc7]

I have been watching this thread for while and have finally got some data to present.
Rifle = Tikka T3 Hunter 30-06 stainless with Witt clamp on muzzle brake
barrel is 21+ inches with 1:11 twist
bullet is 168 gr hornady bthp
powder is H4350
primer is rem 9.5
range is 100 yds
scope is nikon 4-12

i got tired at the end and groups may have opened up btw srry the photos are out of order
Since i didn't seen pressure signs should i go to 60 or 61 grains of powder here?

 

[Erik Cortina]

I have been watching this thread for while and have finally got some data to present.
Rifle = Tikka T3 Hunter 30-06 stainless with Witt clamp on muzzle brake
barrel is 21+ inches with 1:11 twist
bullet is 168 gr hornady bthp
powder is H4350
primer is rem 9.5
range is 100 yds
scope is nikon 4-12

i got tired at the end and groups may have opened up btw srry the photos are out of order
Since i didn't seen pressure signs should i go to 60 or 61 grains of powder here?

You might need to try going higher on your charges as your ES are quite high.

 

[300 RUM]

Anyone care to input on this target?

 

[Erik Cortina]

Anyone care to input on this target?

It's really hard to read the target. I can't tell what order the groups are in.
However, group #3 and #4 (written with sharpie) are both good. Hopefully they are consecutive, if so, load between the two.

 

[300 RUM]

Anyone care to input on this target?

It's really hard to read the target. I can't tell what order the groups are in.
However, group #3 and #4 (written with sharpie) are both good. Hopefully they are consecutive, if so, load between the two.

They are shoot right to left starting on the middle right. The powder charge is hand writen in the upper left corners

 

[Erik Cortina]

Anyone care to input on this target?

It's really hard to read the target. I can't tell what order the groups are in.
However, group #3 and #4 (written with sharpie) are both good. Hopefully they are consecutive, if so, load between the two.

They are shoot right to left starting on the middle right. The powder charge is hand writen in the upper left corners

The sharpie numbers don't coincide with the numbers on the group data. I don't see a powder charge on the group with a #4 written with a sharpie.

I'm liking 24.5 as the ES is better there.

 

[300 RUM]

Anyone care to input on this target?

It's really hard to read the target. I can't tell what order the groups are in.
However, group #3 and #4 (written with sharpie) are both good. Hopefully they are consecutive, if so, load between the two.

They are shoot right to left starting on the middle right. The powder charge is hand writen in the upper left corners

The sharpie numbers don't coincide with the numbers on the group data. I don't see a powder charge on the group with a #4 written with a sharpie.

I'm liking 24.5 as the ES is better there.

24.2 is the charge it is written with in the group data.... Should I try to up the charge some also at it's highest it is 99.9%

 

[6BRinNZ]

RUM - if I am reading correctly you have gone from 23.8 to 24.2, where as all the other increments are .2 increases. This could throw the conclusion out.

It might be worthwhile to run 23.8, 24.0 and 24.2 and 24.4 and 24.6 with the intent of two separate areas to look at. i.e. validate 23.8 -> 24.2 for vertical POI stability and ES.

My suggestion is to also re-look at 24.4 and 24.6. they appear to have consistent ES of 18 but the vertical center is also very similar albeit not as tight but I suspect seating depth might bring that in. You could shoot 24.4, 24.5 and 24.6 to see how it looks with a view to settle on 24.5 and then do seating depth.

If 23.8 -> 24.2 is validated then I would look to work within that range in preference to 24.4 and 24.6, although the ES is a little on the high side.

Over to you on the fill ratio and trying higher charges.

 

[300 RUM]

RUM - if I am reading correctly you have gone from 23.8 to 24.2, where as all the other increments are .2 increases. This could throw the conclusion out.

It might be worthwhile to run 23.8, 24.0 and 24.2 and 24.4 and 24.6 with the intent of two separate areas to look at. i.e. validate 23.8 -> 24.2 for vertical POI stability and ES.

My suggestion is to also re-look at 24.4 and 24.6. they appear to have consistent ES of 18 but the vertical center is also very similar albeit not as tight but I suspect seating depth might bring that in. You could shoot 24.4, 24.5 and 24.6 to see how it looks with a view to settle on 24.5 and then do seating depth.

If 23.8 -> 24.2 is validated then I would look to work within that range in preference to 24.4 and 24.6.

Over to you on the fill ratio and trying higher charges.

Yes 24.0gr is missing they feel to the ground and did not want to shot them.

Target #5 24.4gr I would say they are victims of excessive rifle movment.

I wanted to load 24.8gr but ran out of time to shot them, will through chrono tomorrow to check ES and SD

 

[6BRinNZ]

RUM - if I am reading correctly you have gone from 23.8 to 24.2, where as all the other increments are .2 increases. This could throw the conclusion out.

It might be worthwhile to run 23.8, 24.0 and 24.2 and 24.4 and 24.6 with the intent of two separate areas to look at. i.e. validate 23.8 -> 24.2 for vertical POI stability and ES.

My suggestion is to also re-look at 24.4 and 24.6. they appear to have consistent ES of 18 but the vertical center is also very similar albeit not as tight but I suspect seating depth might bring that in. You could shoot 24.4, 24.5 and 24.6 to see how it looks with a view to settle on 24.5 and then do seating depth.

If 23.8 -> 24.2 is validated then I would look to work within that range in preference to 24.4 and 24.6.

Over to you on the fill ratio and trying higher charges.

Yes 24.0gr is missing they feel to the ground and did not want to shot them.

Target #5 24.4gr I would say they are victims of excessive rifle movment.

I wanted to load 24.8gr but ran out of time to shot them, will through chrono tomorrow to check ES and SD

cool, that may actually align with POI of 24.2 in which case you could be looking at 24.2 -> 24.6, leaving better ES numbers around 24.4 -> 24.6.

Personally I would re-validate but it might pay to get the bench setup fixed first. In part I say this because you have small groups with okish vertical POI but ES on the higher side, and further up the powder charge the groups are opening up a little but ES is looking better or at least moving in the correct direction.

 

[300 RUM]

RUM - if I am reading correctly you have gone from 23.8 to 24.2, where as all the other increments are .2 increases. This could throw the conclusion out.

It might be worthwhile to run 23.8, 24.0 and 24.2 and 24.4 and 24.6 with the intent of two separate areas to look at. i.e. validate 23.8 -> 24.2 for vertical POI stability and ES.

My suggestion is to also re-look at 24.4 and 24.6. they appear to have consistent ES of 18 but the vertical center is also very similar albeit not as tight but I suspect seating depth might bring that in. You could shoot 24.4, 24.5 and 24.6 to see how it looks with a view to settle on 24.5 and then do seating depth.

If 23.8 -> 24.2 is validated then I would look to work within that range in preference to 24.4 and 24.6.

Over to you on the fill ratio and trying higher charges.

Yes 24.0gr is missing they feel to the ground and did not want to shot them.

Target #5 24.4gr I would say they are victims of excessive rifle movment.

I wanted to load 24.8gr but ran out of time to shot them, will through chrono tomorrow to check ES and SD

cool, that may actually align with POI of 24.2 in which case you could be looking at 24.2 -> 24.6, leaving better ES numbers around 24.4 -> 24.6.

Personally I would re-validate but it might pay to get the bench setup fixed first. In part I say this because you have small groups with okish vertical POI but ES on the higher side, and further up the powder charge the groups are opening up a little but ES is looking better or at least moving in the correct direction.

These were siting 0.010 off/jump what would be your guess on seating adjustment?

 

[6BRinNZ]

If your reloading practices are up to it I would follow Erik's advice and make .003 adjustments. It isn't easy to get tolerances down that low in which case I would work within whatever tolerance you can manage as that's how it will be going forward - there is no point in tuning to a level that can't be sustained (IMO).

With respect to starting point I never jam so I only ever start from jump .005" and go from there, so your choice on where to start. When you do the testing keep using the chrony.

The only other suggestion I would make is leave off the group size data for now, it makes it hard to read the targets and up to this point you are less interested in group size (within reason) and more interested in chrony numbers and POI vertically.

 

[Bart B.]

One thing that happens to groups testing ammo at different ranges, they tend to open up about 10% for each 100 yards past the first 100 yards. That's due to the following variables:

Muzzle velocity spread; 30 caliber magnums have about 1/50th MOA vertical shot stringing at 100 yards for each 10 fps spread in muzzle velocity. At 1000 yards and the same spread, it's about 1/5th MOA; ten times as much. (Corrected stringing amounts, bad math earlier)

Bullet BC spread; all bullets are unbalanced by some microscopic amount. That causes a tiny spread in their drag or ballistic coefficient. A 2% spread in BC can cause about 1/10 MOA vertical change in impact at 100 and about 4/10 MOA at 1000 yards.

Subtle changes in atmospheric conditions; tiny, invisible cross winds and/or air density/temperature cause the bullets trajectory to change a little bit. A given wind change near the target has less effect on drift at the target than the same wind change close to the firing line.

Testing at 100 yards gives one good basic information. But tests at the long range target shows what the real accuracy is down range.

One other thing to consider in group shooting. If several groups with the same load are not within 10% of the same size, there's not enough shots in each group for any one of them to have a 90% or better chance of representing what the system's accuracy really is.

 

[skiutah02]

This is another good one-at least I think

Below is a target from 100 yd testing of the 185 Juggernauts in my rifle yesterday. Purchased a pack of these from another member here and they arrived a few days ago. Have a fair bit of experience using this method over the past year (I know it as the OCW method), but thought it might be fun (for me at least) to see what YOU might do. The jump in elevation between 43.6 and 43.9 makes me nervous, but the group at 43.6 makes me happy. This is the first 15-16 shots of this bullet in my rifle, so all of my starting points were educated guesses using manuals and the knowledge gained in the 2000 rounds with this barrel (testing with 155, 168, 175, 178s). It may important to know that the brass at 43.9 and 44.2 just started to (very, very faintly) show ejector marks and the writing indicates velocities of shots (round-robin). Later tonight I will post the results of what I did. Note: The 3 shots below the test is the load I am currently using and were used to foul the cold, clean barrel right before the test.

So the question is what would you do? In my mind not clear-cut but actually two possibilities..... Drew