Hallo, I am sure this question has been talked to death but I can not find a straight answer. I shoot a 1941 Swedish Mauser in competition here in Germany. My father-in-law has told me that neck sizing is better but when I tried it, I was having major problems closing the bolt. I full length size now and have no problems with accuracy, but he says my brass will be broke sooner. We use Lapua brass and it is a little bit expensive to only get a few reloads out of them. Also, I use a standard RCBS FL die. Does anyone have any tricks to set it up properly to give that minimal "bump" to the shoulder that is needed? Much thanks from Wittgenstein.
Is Full Length Better?
- Thread starter coblenblueface
- Start date
bigedp51
A full length resizing die will push the shoulder back approximately .002 to .006 smaller than the GO headspace gauge or minimum headspace when making hard contact with the shell holder. Sizing this way insures the resized case will fit in any rifle of the caliber BUT it can push the shoulder back too far and shorten case life and cause case head separations.
For maximum case life in a bolt action rife the shoulder should be bumped or pushed back only .001 to .002.
The Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge is a very good tool and will work for all rifle cases. Meaning you do not have to buy separate gauges for each cartridge caliber.
http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Load-Headspace-Kit-With-Body-1-Each/
Hornady Headspace Gauge video (very good information.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-UrMTyJ1_E
Sinclair Full-Length Sizing Die Shims
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2012/03/sinclair-full-length-sizing-die-shims/
REDDING - REDDING COMPETITION SHELLHOLDER SETS
http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-equipment/shellholders/shellholder-sets-storage/redding-competition-shellholder-sets-prod39926.aspx
Full length resizing can cause excess head clearance and this will push the shoulder back too far and cause case head separations.
In Germany during Oktoberfest this should be the worst excess headspace you should ever see.
For maximum case life in a bolt action rife the shoulder should be bumped or pushed back only .001 to .002.
The Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge is a very good tool and will work for all rifle cases. Meaning you do not have to buy separate gauges for each cartridge caliber.
http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Load-Headspace-Kit-With-Body-1-Each/
Hornady Headspace Gauge video (very good information.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-UrMTyJ1_E
Sinclair Full-Length Sizing Die Shims
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2012/03/sinclair-full-length-sizing-die-shims/
REDDING - REDDING COMPETITION SHELLHOLDER SETS
http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-equipment/shellholders/shellholder-sets-storage/redding-competition-shellholder-sets-prod39926.aspx
Full length resizing can cause excess head clearance and this will push the shoulder back too far and cause case head separations.
In Germany during Oktoberfest this should be the worst excess headspace you should ever see.
I have a question to add to this question...I set my full length die to contact shell holder with a .004" filler gauge between die and shell holder...Is this an "ok" way to get consistant repeatable resizing without having to buy the competition shell holders?
Once fired in your chamber it should be pretty well formed to those dimensions. If you full size the brass will not last as many reloads. I neck size the top 2/3rds of my brass to eliminate all the back and forth work hardening the full length sizing produces. Unless you have some weird chamber issues I would go with neck sizing and try to figure out why your having a hard time closing the bolt. I assume you are measuring OAL to the same length or using a ogive block to maintain some set distance from or inside the rifling lands.
All that said I know how the Lapua brass can be costly but you should be get the most reloads from it as any other brand. Perhaps you should look into annealing them more often to try and help avoid the work hardening if you continue to full length size.
Bo
All that said I know how the Lapua brass can be costly but you should be get the most reloads from it as any other brand. Perhaps you should look into annealing them more often to try and help avoid the work hardening if you continue to full length size.
Bo
I am a little new to the whole reloading thing, hence why I am here. We are still getting equipment as we can get it. We still measure powder with a balance scale. lol. I know I want to upgrade my dies but I do not know if Redding or Forstner are better. We just want to get the best accuracy we can with our rifles.
By the way, you would not get a beer at Oktoberfest in that sort of glass that I have ever seen, but it was funny. Although, we do have a lot more foam on our beers then you do in the states. We would send the american poured beer back for being not foamy enough.
By the way, you would not get a beer at Oktoberfest in that sort of glass that I have ever seen, but it was funny. Although, we do have a lot more foam on our beers then you do in the states. We would send the american poured beer back for being not foamy enough.
Kirchenrohrbacher Hell. Now thats real beer 
I full length size everything now. Used to necksize but I found better accuracy FL sizing. No noticed decrease in brass life. 30+ reloads in factory chambers ain't bad.
It must be done correctly though. .002 bump should be max. You need a dependable way to measure shoulder set back. Its the only safe/correct way to set up a FL die.
That being said, do you know where your brass is binding when using a necksizer?
You should be getting more than a few reloads without encountering resistance.
If your running a hot enough load to flex the action theres nothing that will save your brass.
I full length size everything now. Used to necksize but I found better accuracy FL sizing. No noticed decrease in brass life. 30+ reloads in factory chambers ain't bad.
It must be done correctly though. .002 bump should be max. You need a dependable way to measure shoulder set back. Its the only safe/correct way to set up a FL die.
That being said, do you know where your brass is binding when using a necksizer?
You should be getting more than a few reloads without encountering resistance.
If your running a hot enough load to flex the action theres nothing that will save your brass.
Turbulent Turtle
F-TR competitor
Bowman26 said:
The above myth refuses to die.
A properly setup F/L die will yield much more consistent cases load after load compared to a neck-sizing regimen.
Here is my experinece:
Full Length Resizing is the way to go BUT you must make sure that you do not over size the case. One of the previously mentioned headspace tools should be used to set up your die.
First myth: full sizing will reduce case life - not true if the die is set up for proper headspace - cases fatigue fail in the neck - full sizing does not contribute to this any more than neck sizing.
Second myth: neck sizing will produce more accurate loads - not true if full size die is set up properly for headspace. For hunting ammunication - full sizing done properly is absoultely the only way to go for reliable function.
Full Length Resizing is the way to go BUT you must make sure that you do not over size the case. One of the previously mentioned headspace tools should be used to set up your die.
First myth: full sizing will reduce case life - not true if the die is set up for proper headspace - cases fatigue fail in the neck - full sizing does not contribute to this any more than neck sizing.
Second myth: neck sizing will produce more accurate loads - not true if full size die is set up properly for headspace. For hunting ammunication - full sizing done properly is absoultely the only way to go for reliable function.
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
Getting away with neck sizing only depends on shooting loads of relatively low pressure. A lot of folks don't do that. The fellow that asked the question that started this thread is obviously shooting loads that have high enough pressure to require sizing of the body of the case. A lot of reloaders are still not fully clued in on the proper way to set up an FL die, and do not have the proper gauge to measure shoulder bump. If you set up the die wrong, there can be problems, If you know what you are doing, they will be minimal. There are other factors. If your case has a relatively small shoulder angle, and the shoulder brass in not too thick, you can set the die so that the shoulder is where it was when it came out of the chamber, and the reduction in body diameter will allow the bolt to close smoothly. I had a .220 Swift that would show incipient separation if you did not set the die that way. So not only do you need to follow the general directions, but you need to be able to observe and adapt according to your particular situation. If the fellow is having trouble with a tight bolt after neck sizing his brass several times, IMO that is the problem that needs to be solved....in this thread.
hoz53
Gold $$ Contributor
Sounds like Mr Coblens questions have mostly been answered in this thread. It seems to me the only question left and also what I wonder about is if he backs the sizer die out or uses comp shell holder to get say .002 shoulder bump will the case body be sized? In other words is there some amount of shoulder bump in a standard fl size die where the case would not be pushed into the die far enough for the body to be sized? I always wondered when I used to adjust my size dies down to just get enough sizing to close the bolt easy how much of the case was really getting sized?(just shoulder or shoulder and body)
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
bigedp51 said:A full length resizing die will push the shoulder back approximately .002 to .006 smaller than the GO headspace gauge or minimum headspace when making hard contact with the shell holder. Sizing this way insures the resized case will fit in any rifle of the caliber BUT it can push the shoulder back too far and shorten case life and cause case head separations.
For maximum case life in a bolt action rife the shoulder should be bumped or pushed back only .001 to .002.
The Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge is a very good tool and will work for all rifle cases. Meaning you do not have to buy separate gauges for each cartridge caliber.
http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Load-Headspace-Kit-With-Body-1-Each/
Hornady Headspace Gauge video (very good information.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-UrMTyJ1_E
Sinclair Full-Length Sizing Die Shims
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2012/03/sinclair-full-length-sizing-die-shims/
REDDING - REDDING COMPETITION SHELLHOLDER SETS
http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-equipment/shellholders/shellholder-sets-storage/redding-competition-shellholder-sets-prod39926.aspx
Full length resizing can cause excess head clearance and this will push the shoulder back too far and cause case head separations.
In Germany during Oktoberfest this should be the worst excess headspace you should ever see.
OMG!!! I been off this gun forum for almost 8 months and two or three days after I return I find that Biged is still pasting pictures!! where are the pics from your favorite British manual??? LMAO right here and now!!!!
Wayne.
P.s Ed I hope you been lubing your cases they will form to your chamber in those old relics much better then unlubed cases hahaha!!!!!
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
Win94ae said:
Just not exactly true, this can happen when you don't have the tools and knowledge to set the f/l die up correctly or if your die does't match your chamber correctly but if you have a quality f/l die and set it up correctly the cases will last just as long as neck sized cases and in some instances even longer!
Wayne.
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
If you want to see if your die is reducing the diameter of a particular part of a case, measure the diameter of that part of the case with your calipers, note the dimension, and lock the jaws at that setting, then size the case, and use the locked caliper as a gauge, if the fit is unchanged, the die has not sized that part of the case, if the caliper fit is looser at that same exact distance from the case head, then the die did it.
Calm down Wayne 
IMO Biged has become a valueable member to this forum.
He's turned over a new leaf and while its still brown on both sides its given him the perspective of two sides to every story ;D
Lets just not travel down that lubed path again, theres only so much the man can take ;D
Good to see both of you back.
IMO Biged has become a valueable member to this forum.
He's turned over a new leaf and while its still brown on both sides its given him the perspective of two sides to every story ;D
Lets just not travel down that lubed path again, theres only so much the man can take ;D
Good to see both of you back.
The back and forth here would probably explain my (as a beginner) confusion. Perhaps a simpler question. What would one consider a good FL die to upgrade from my standard RCBS one? We have been looking at redding and forstner. Is one better than the other, or is one type within a fabrik better than another? Also for my father-in-law, any suggestions on a neck sizer?
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