Introducing a New long range bullet by Barts Bullets

[Alex Wheeler]

Well, if these bullets are on the market I assume testing has been done. So what were the results of the tests at 600 or 1000? Who were the long range Benchrest shooters that tested them?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Not sure who bart sent some to he handled that. Donovan moran has some from me and so does jim fowler.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Maybe some of those shooters he lined up will chime in.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

In my opinion, for $75 per 100, those bullets had better be able to easily break all the world records set by Berger and Sierra or they can keep em. Thats nearly twice the cost of Berger 105's. Do you really think they will give twice the performance??? :

 

[savagedasher]

In my opinion, for $75 per 100, those bullets had better be able to easily break all the world records set by Berger and Sierra or they can keep em. Thats nearly twice the cost of Berger 105's. Do you really think they will give twice the performance??? :

Only time will tell. ;D ;D ;D Larry

 

[dmoran]

In my opinion, for $75 per 100, those bullets had better be able to easily break all the world records set by Berger and Sierra or they can keep em. Thats nearly twice the cost of Berger 105's. Do you really think they will give twice the performance??? :

Ledd Slinger -

I see them as $55 per 100 by the1000ct, and/or $59 per 100 by the 500ct.
Hardly any custom LR bullet maker offers 100 lot sample packs, which I can't blame them for asking more for.

Personally, while I still like the cheapest prices we can get, I find those prices to be very inline with other custom 6mm LR bullet makers and very close to some imports. But then again, I think every bullet made today are to high priced, both factory and customs !.!.!

Donovan

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Well, if these bullets are on the market I assume testing has been done. So what were the results of the tests at 600 or 1000? Who were the long range Benchrest shooters that tested them?

Alex -

I should have some 1000yd tested results completed in a few days (from both my LT and HV).
Will let you know....
Donovan

 

[Ledd Slinger]

In my opinion, for $75 per 100, those bullets had better be able to easily break all the world records set by Berger and Sierra or they can keep em. Thats nearly twice the cost of Berger 105's. Do you really think they will give twice the performance??? :

Ledd Slinger -

I see them as $55 per 100 by the1000ct, and/or $59 per 100 by the 500ct.
Hardly any custom LR bullet maker offers 100 lot sample packs, which I can't blame them for asking more for.

Personally, while I still like the cheapest prices we can get, I find those prices to be very inline with other custom 6mm LR bullet makers and very close to some imports. But then again, I think every bullet made today are to high priced, both factory and customs !.!.!

Donovan

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Well, if these bullets are on the market I assume testing has been done. So what were the results of the tests at 600 or 1000? Who were the long range Benchrest shooters that tested them?

Alex -

I should have some 1000yd tested results completed in a few days (from both my LT and HV).
Will let you know....
Donovan

I understand. I personally like to be able to buy bullets "initially" in boxes of 100 for testing in case a rifle does not prefer them over another bullet. That way I'm not spending a lot of money on something I may not need and have to worry about getting my money back by re-selling them. The same goes with my view on powder. I like to buy in 1 lb bottles for testing before investing in larger amounts.

So without knowing if they will shoot well and having minimal feedback on the bullets from other shooters, I consider the price to be $75 per 100...Even at $55 per 100, that's still significantly more expensive than the world record setting Berger bullets readily available to purchase.

Not saying that the new bullets aren't going to shoot great or even break a record or two when the stars are aligned properly and the wind is being friendly But when Berger 105's cost around $35 per 100 and they already have proven themselves beyond a doubt to be one of the most accurate bullets in existence.....why take the gamble? If the price was in line with Berger or Sierra bullets (which cost even less), it would be a completely different story. I'm not a gambling man and never will be. Not bad mouthing anything about the design or how they may shoot. Just my opinion on the price. Really no other way to base my opinion either because the bullets have very little feedback from experienced shooters at this point. So in my mind, buying them at those prices and not knowing the level of performance they will give would be like rolling the dice.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

In my opinion, for $75 per 100, those bullets had better be able to easily break all the world records set by Berger and Sierra or they can keep em. Thats nearly twice the cost of Berger 105's. Do you really think they will give twice the performance??? :

All those records were not shot with bullets right from the box. Many hours of sorting, trimming, pointing, exc. Personally I hate sorting bullets. I'd pay 75 for 100 if I didn't have to sort.

Donovan,
Keep me updated. I just cant believe there is a new long range bullet on the market and it has not been tested at 1k. Someone has to have some data, no?

 

[Joe Maisto]

When you say "labor of love" does that mean Bart is doing this all by himself, like Randy (BIB bullets) and Tommy (Vapor Trail) ?

Tim,
+1
I am old enough to have used bullets made by Jef Fowler that put him into the HOF in about one years time of shooting. I also seem to recall our beloved Mr. Ed Watson, who in '97 had way more points needed to get into the HOF.
We have some excellent bullet makers in this business, and lost another in Don Gentner. But as life goes, another seems to step up and attempt to fill their shoes.

Ole' George Jones made a record with those same words..."Whose gonna fill their shoes ?" Some in fact...DO . I prefer to use bullets made by a one (1) man shop, ( And there must be at least 6 of them, and i'm sure more.
I do this because I do not shoot as good as most, therefore...I need all I can get working for me. I use a Canadien bullet manufacturer who does one at a time. I know that if one is questionable, his name rides on it, therefore it goes into the scrap pile. There is one in Italy now doing the same on replicas of Don Gentners dies. Another one man shop...(so far)
Most of the people in this business are really good people. You need to put "feelers "out there . It's a learning experience.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

All those records were not shot with bullets right from the box. Many hours of sorting, trimming, pointing, exc. Personally I hate sorting bullets. I'd pay 75 for 100 if I didn't have to sort.

That's understandable. But folks who break records don't trust ANY component straight out of the bag or box. A reasonably paranoid shooter hell bent on breaking a world record will still weigh and measure every bullet because all it takes is one bad bullet to ruin the group. Trusting a product is of course a personal decision. Everyone selling most anything on the market talks about how great and perfect their product is...

But only time will tell with these bullets as thousands of them hit the market over the years and get into the hands of high level competition shooters with rifles built by the best gunsmiths in the world. But that data does not exist yet, so like I said before, it's a gamble.

And on a day at the 1K range when the wind doesn't want to cooperate at all, which is many times the case, you are just throwing all that extra money down range for nothing.

I just think a new bullet needs to establish a solid winning pedigree before hitting the market with pricing like that.

 

[dmoran]

Ledd Slinger -

A note to you (in case you didn't know):
zfastmalibu (Alex Wheeler) who you replied to, is a 1000yd World Record holder (Aggregate record set in 2014).
Alex is one of those "Deep Creek Range" magicians, who repeatedly shoot tiny little groups in 1000-BR.
Donovan

 

[Jason Boersma]

Sometimes the only way a barrel will shoot competitively is with custom bullets and that is worth a lot. I wish there were more custom bullet makers. Custom bullets aren't cheap but when you get to a certain level of competition they become the next step to take to become better.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Ledd Slinger -

A note to you (in case you didn't know):
zfastmalibu (Alex Wheeler) who you replied to, is a 1000yd World Record holder (Aggregate record set in 2014).
Alex is one of those "Deep Creek Range" magicians, who repeatedly shoot tiny little groups in 1000-BR.
Donovan

I know that. His status as a record holder has nothing to do with my opinion. He could be John Moses Browning come back from the dead and it would still have nothing to do with my reasoning. Alex hasn't tried the bullets yet, so he can't prove that the extra cost is worth it. Neither can I. But the fact is, NOBODY can.

These prices are bordering, if not exceeding, the price of Lathe turned bullets in 6mm caliber. They are JACKETED bullets. Probably don't even have a bonded core. So where's all the extra cost coming from?

I've watched James Calhoon in Havre, MT sit in his small two car garage making his jacketed varmint bullets with his wife one at a time by hand and machine. Completely custom bullets, but he doesn't charge anything near these prices. Granted his bullets may not have the extreme tight tolerances, but they are very good bullets and the amount of labor to make them is similar to other custom bullet makers if not more because he is not a large operation with fancy machinery.

 

[Jason Boersma]

The extra cost your afraid of comes from making each and every bullet exactly the same in every way, same weight, same bearing surface, same length and that takes time. Time=money and they are made one at a time by one man. How much do we pay for a barrel just to throw it away after 2000 rounds.

 

[dmoran]

All those records were not shot with bullets right from the box. Many hours of sorting, trimming, pointing, exc. Personally I hate sorting bullets. I'd pay 75 for 100 if I didn't have to sort.

That's understandable. But folks who break records don't trust ANY component straight out of the bag or box. A reasonably paranoid shooter hell bent on breaking a world record will still weigh and measure every bullet because all it takes is one bad bullet to ruin the group........

Funny how you new that, but replied to him with what you did (highlighted above)

But yes, we all have the right to our own opinions......
Donovan

 

[Ledd Slinger]

The extra cost your afraid of comes from making each and every bullet exactly the same in every way, same weight, same bearing surface, same length and that takes time. Time=money and they are made one at a time by one man. How much do we pay for a barrel just to throw it away after 2000 rounds.

Very true. I guess we'll just have to wait and see if these bullets start showing up on the record books to prove any of our opinions...Good day gentlemen.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

All those records were not shot with bullets right from the box. Many hours of sorting, trimming, pointing, exc. Personally I hate sorting bullets. I'd pay 75 for 100 if I didn't have to sort.

That's understandable. But folks who break records don't trust ANY component straight out of the bag or box. A reasonably paranoid shooter hell bent on breaking a world record will still weigh and measure every bullet because all it takes is one bad bullet to ruin the group........

Funny how you new that, but replied to him with what you did (highlighted above)

But yes, we all have the right to our own opinions......
Donovan

What I said before that is "that is understandable". If the bullets are worth what you pay and they save you a bunch of time producing world record level ammunition, then GREAT! That would be awesome to have the new world record breaking bullet at our fingertips. But there's no data as of yet to justify the cost.

A family member of mine helped start up X-Caliber barrel MFG. They originally wanted to charge $300-$350 for one of their button rifled barrel blanks because they put every ounce of fine machining and quality control into them that Lilja, Shilen and Hart does. But it made no sense to come into a market of button rifled barrels by other manufacturers that have proven themselves to all types of shooters for decades. They needed to get their name out there, so they are selling their barrels at a very affordable price right now. Reviews by top machinists and gunsmiths have shown that the X-Caliber barrel tolerances are as tight as anything out there. But until shooters start getting them on a bunch of guns and shooting better in whatever they are using them for, there's really no justifiable way to increase the cost. Maybe they will shoot better, maybe they won't. But they are selling barrels like crazy because they are priced at a point where people are willing to take the risk. That's how you get your foothold in a market dominated by other manufacturers.

Berger and Sierra have set the bar extremely high. The climb for these new bullets won't be easy. And it will be much slower at that price point.

 

[338 Mollett]

Just finished testing and two barrels from two different rifles like them.Demand what you want,but when the bullets hold one inch at 300yds I'm happy.Good product Bart gonna win some matches with them.Didn't have time to do a BC test today but it's coming.The bullets are a little longer than a sierra at the same weight,the meplat is bigger than Berger's or Sierra bullets which tells me there is room for improvement in pointing them,that I feel should be left up to the shooter.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Just finished testing and two barrels from two different rifles like them.Demand what you want,but when the bullets hold one inch at 300yds I'm happy.Good product Bart gonna win some matches with them.Didn't have time to do a BC test today but it's coming.The bullets are a little longer than a sierra at the same weight,the meplat is bigger than Berger's or Sierra bullets which tells me there is room for improvement in pointing them,that I feel should be left up to the shooter.

Not trying to be a jerk, but what type of match do you plan to win with 1"groups at 300 yards?
I have a sporter type "hunting" rifle (8 or 9 lbs) that will print groups UNDER an inch at 300 yards with Berger VLD's while shooting from the ground using a Harris bipod. This post proves nothing...

The last highlighted part of the post kinda slams the gavel in my decision for trying them.

I'll leave it alone on this final post. I hope those of you who do try them find exceptional accuracy that is worth the money spent. Take care.

 

[OIF/OEF]

I just hope some day to be able to shoot good enough to justify the use of such fine equipment...nice to know its there when I am ready to step up to the plate. Thanks to all of you who take the time spending long nights producing a product that's hand made and made as close to perfection as possible by shooters for shooters.


Very Respectfully