• This Forum is for adults 18 years of age or over. By continuing to use this Forum you are confirming that you are 18 or older. No content shall be viewed by any person under 18 in California.

Induction brass annealer redux

GrocMax said:
Convection liquid cooling with a radiator just no pump. The temp differential causes a pumping action all on its own. I was reading thru the thread it was mentioned the coolant flow was very low with the pump on.

Radiator cold side on bottom, goes to bottom coil, upper coil goes to radiator top, coolant circulates on its own.
Click to expand...

OK.. very interesting. Give it a try. One more idea to reduce the cost. Let us know how it works out and pass it on to the new builders.
How far along are you in your build ? Any pictures ?

Gina
 
You could use the C output (increase the run time to say 30 sec to insure a case gets dropped) to also operate the case feeder motor via a 120v relay, have two switches in the drop tube, upper one is hooked to the STOP command and resets the timer, one below it operates the START command. These can be hooked up parallel to the STOP START buttons on the panel.

That is if I'm understanding the timer function correctly.

Gina1 said:
Yes
Click to expand...
 
Haven't even started ;) Studying intently before buying stuff. Besides I could always add a pump easily if it didn't work.

Gina1 said:
OK.. very interesting. Give it a try. One more idea to reduce the cost. Let us know how it works out and pass it on to the new builders.
How far along are you in your build ? Any pictures ?

Gina
Click to expand...
 
Maybe not tube mounted switches, looks like the START switch needs to pull to 0v for 100mS (1/10th sec) or greater to initiate START command. Switch would need to be under the case in the case holder. Does not specify a minimum time for STOP command.

I guess you could run it in cycle mode without a STOP command, if a case doesn't drop it just keeps going.

EDit: Nope, needs a STOP command initiated by a case dropping in order to reset and not drop cases on top of each other.
 
Last edited:
Actually the B2E timer would work correctly it has a 5mS reset. No ON or STOP though. Searching for timers.......

B2E looks like the B output becomes not programmable when in one shot mode, it simply turns on when A output is timed out, a reset starts it over. Just hook up a 12v automotive relay in series with the trap door solenoid, case feed motor runs until a case drops down the tube then reset starts the cycle over.
 
Last edited:
Once I get done with this current set of classes I am going to setup a TI microcontroller to run mine, timing, gate operations, case feeder will all be run via the MSP430/432. Ill post it up once I get rolling on it.
 
Gina1 said:
You could try it. Would you be using an air pump ? Take my word for it, that induction coil does get HOT without coolant. Running at 48 volts and 12 amps = 576 watts Think how hot 6 100 watt bulbs (if you can still find then) would get.

Gina
Click to expand...


Very true. I ran a couple cases to test out the function and the coils definitely gets too hot to handle. Once I hooked up the liquid cooler, it was cool to the touch.
 
GrocMax said:
Convection liquid cooling with a radiator just no pump. The temp differential causes a pumping action all on its own. I was reading thru the thread it was mentioned the coolant flow was very low with the pump on.

Radiator cold side on bottom, goes to bottom coil, upper coil goes to radiator top, coolant circulates on its own.
Click to expand...

The pump is cheap enough I wouldn't want to count on convection through a 1/8" copper coil for cooling.
 
GrocMax said:
3 times the price but this timer has a lot more functionality and programming capability without getting too far into it-

https://www.automationdirect.com/ad..._Counter_-z-_Timer_-z-_Tachometer/CTT-1C-A120
Click to expand...

Hi Scott...

What Erick and I put together was for everyone. If you can build it for less, build a better mouse trap, improve on it.... Go for it !! The whole idea of publishing the GinaErick annealer was to give our community a low cost induction annealer, that with a little technical ability, most folks could build. I have always said it belongs to everyone.
If you come up with a better idea, design, lower cost. Please share it with us.
Thanks
Gina
 
Not criticizing, more like thinking out loud. Like adapting a case feeder I already have and how to do it with the current design. The basics are there- power supply needs, the induction board, how its controlled well the sky is the limit. Once the basics are there changing things is pretty easy, looks to me like the basics are covered.

Gina1 said:
Hi Scott...

What Erick and I put together was for everyone. If you can build it for less, build a better mouse trap, improve on it.... Go for it !! The whole idea of publishing the GinaErick annealer was to give our community a low cost induction annealer, that with a little technical ability, most folks could build. I have always said it belongs to everyone.
If you come up with a better idea, design, lower cost. Please share it with us.
Thanks
Gina
Click to expand...
 
Convection cooling of water will not create a high flow rate of water till the water gets to about 170 deg F. The density of water doesn't increase to single digits of percent change till then.

However, back in the "olden days" a state of the art vacuum tube company named Eimac developed a ceramic envelope UHF tube that was "Vapor Phase" cooled. The water in the cavity surrounding the plate of the device which was the hottest allowed the water to boil and the steam went up to the bottom of the radiator and cooled back to water and was able to transfer a high rate of heat away from the tube.
This was also used in early cars which didn't have water pumps and allowed the cooling water to boil and the steam returned to water in the radiator.

Steam seems really hot, but 212 deg F isn't terribly hot for a copper coil. And, if there is steam getting to the radiator, you are at maximum heat flow due to the heat of vaporization of water to steam.
It takes way more heat energy to vaporize water than simply heat it.
 
Removing those massive passive heat sinks off the inductive board driver transistors and putting a copper water cooled sink on it might help under heavy use.
 
Ok, OK, real life experience with the existing GinaErick annealer, as seen in the video on this thread. The only thing that gets hot on the induction PCB board are the capacitors, hence the need for the fan over the PCB board. The heat sink'ed MOSFET'S stay cool. No additional cooling needed there, but I'm sure the fan helps..
The capacity of the radiator(with the fan and coolant pump) is more than adequate to do more than a 100 cases at one time. (the most I've done at one time) The coolant never got very hot, but you could feel the radiator blowing out the heat and the coil stayed cool.
You can change the design if you wish, but this works.
 
Last edited:
The power supply is probably the single most expensive component, and if your budget allows you can get fancy here- more power, remote output switching (no need for contactor/relay), remote adjustable current and voltage etc.
 
Guys.. just got home after a long day. Will write more tomorrow. Just to let you know I read your posts.

Good night
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Upgrades & Donations

This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.


Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.

You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.


To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.

Classified Ads

Forum statistics

Threads
165,378
Messages
2,194,276
Members
78,863
Latest member
patrickchavez

Share This Page

Back
Top