Great winning barrels or is it great Bullets?

[Tim Singleton]

BR and F-Class are two different animals. Precision requirements are different, [some] reloading practices are different, strings of fire are different, therefore direct comparison of the two may be very misleading. In F-Class, the vast majority of shooters are using Bergers, with an occasional Sierra, Lapua, Nosler, or Hornady offering thrown into the mix. It is rare to find F-Class shooters using custom bullets. Give me a good Bartlein/Krieger/Brux barrel and a Berger bullet and I will find a load that gets the job done. This whole thread sounds to me like someone is trying to drum up business for a custom bullet.

I don't think there is any indication this thread that would give this impression

 

[Rope2horns]

I had 1 bullet I tried in a .284 Shehane that literally shot as bad as a Blunderbuss! A friend of mine bought 1000 of those same bullets, for his rifle, that had 2 Shehane barrels, and could not get them to shoot any better than I could. His friend had a Shehane and a straight .284 and neither of them would shoot those bullets either! These were all the same bullet, just different lots.

Myself,Ben,and several others..discussed these bullets at the La. State match. I had the same problem as they did,and ended up using them to ff Shehane brass. They shot terrible no matter what you changed. Very disappointing for a custom bullet compared to Bergers. I have no affiliation with Berger. Other than they get a lot of my money. lol

 

[Jet]

Its very rare to find a barrel that cant be tuned to win matches in my experience. I do not think many in f-class are shooting custom bullets. Which leaves us with Bergers mainly. What I have seen is, IF you have a good lot and you sort them, they can shoot as small as any custom. I would say, you could give a champion most any barrel and bullet and he would find a tune that works and still win matches in a lot of cases. Seems like those guys never get bad barrels....

Alex is spot on with this. Methodical testing and tuning is the key to shooting small consistently. Starting with quality components is key but it isn't a guarantee for success. The top shooters remain the top shooters due to their mindset, preparation and practice.

Good Shooting

Rich

 

[LHSmith]

Myself,Ben,and several others..discussed these bullets at the La. State match. I had the same problem as they did,and ended up using them to ff Shehane brass. They shot terrible no matter what you changed. Very disappointing for a custom bullet compared to Bergers. I have no affiliation with Berger. Other than they get a lot of my money. lol

Again, from SR BR only experience, I would never buy a bulk lot of custom bullets unless they were tested in my gun with few exceptions (Most Bibs will sell without loosing $$)

 

[Rope2horns]

Again, from SR BR only experience, I would never buy a bulk lot of custom bullets unless they were tested in my gun with few exceptions (Most Bibs will sell without loosing $$)

+1

I was very new to Fclass and was looking for the "Holy Grail" so to speak. I wont fall into that trap again.........I hope lol

 

[500Stroker]

I have found many of the so called flyers are the loose nut. behind behind the gun . Mine sure has that problem from time to time.
Larry

No truer words were ever spoke.

 

[Terry]

Tim

I shoot 600 & 1,000 BR. This year I have 6 custom and 6 factory bullets on the shelf this year. Great bullets will turn a 2" rifle into a 1.5" rifle at 600. The greatest frustration is with factory bullets. One lot shoots, the next is worthless. Most boxes contain a bullet or two that will ruin your day. Finding them before you shoot is critical.

That said you still need a great barrel.

 

[tuttlefarm]

Maybe so
How will you ever know if you can reload equal to the competition if you've never seen what a custom bullet can do

Tim, I have shot a lot of custom bullets, but if your seating depth or neck preparation is not ideal, the rifle will not shoot to it's potential. Example....... I am a new reloader and I buy 100 bullets from ABCDE manufacturer that sets records with his bullets. I buy new brass, powder and primers and load up 5 different powder charges and go tests...... At 300 yds he is getting 3-5 inch groups and tells everyone that the bullets are No good........... I take the same rifle, do my prep work, load up 5 different seating depths with a known powder charge that I have tested before, and wow those bullets shoot 3/8th to 1/2 inch groups at 300 and I tell everyone I have a great barrel and bullets........... So the question is..... What made the rifle shoot..............

 

[Immike]

I had a interesting example once, had a hot combo 6xc going strong, ordered a new lot of bullets same maker and this lot stunk on my Juenke machine. No choice, out of bullets so load them up. Come match day they are shooting a range record until 2 of them blow up in the last 3 shots of the match. I sent the rest of them back and the problem went away. Seems the barrel and load meant more than the bullets did until the bullets failed to stay together.

 

[Tim Singleton]

Tuttle
I same new guy developing loads for his Rifle using an over the counter Bullet like the a max or some other Bullet will never learn what he's doing right or wrong.

All I'm saying is as guys building rifles to the standards they read about being used by winners.
They don't seem to talk about bullets as much as maybe they should

 

[tuttlefarm]

Tuttle
I same new guy developing loads for his Rifle using an over the counter Bullet like the a max or some other Bullet will never learn what he's doing right or wrong.

All I'm saying is as guys building rifles to the standards they read about being used by winners.
They don't seem to talk about bullets as much as maybe they should

Tim, you are not wrong, I guess what I am saying is we all have a different way to get to the top and it is a compilation of the whole package.

 

[WyleWD]

Tim, you are not wrong, I guess what I am saying is we all have a different way to get to the top and it is a compilation of the whole package.

A lot of great advice and philosophy in this thread... I especially like this one^^ above.

I look at successful shooting at it as a chain. It is only as strong as its weakest link. And that very much includes the shooter's reloading prowess, mindset and tenacity. And Tim, I do agree that bullet choice based on unbiased testing of several bullets helps to build shooter confidence which is part of that chain. JMHO. WD

 

[PeterE]

I think it´s partly due to the complexity of evaluating bullets! It´s quite easy to figure out if the bullets are good or bad. Really easy at times actually... But to figure out if one particular lot of bullets are 95% or 100%, thats a whole different thing.

 

[Tim Singleton]

The number of bullets being used in
f class that aren't custom. I think is more due to availability
As more custom Bullet makers offer bullets to these competitors I think you will see a distinctive shift from the norm

 

[338 Mollett]

It is a frustrating journey sometimes trying to figure out the solution.But make no mistake bullet lot difference can make a huge impact on results,I,m fighting that right now with 7mm 195's .

 

[Down South]

I'm not trying to drum up business for anyone
I do not shoot F class
If the guys that do are happy with the accuracy they get with their Bullet of choice that's great.
I don't think John Whidden shoots the Amax

John Whidden is a GREAT shooter and reloader and could probably win just as much with Amax bullets as he does now.......lol.......I say this as a joke but it may very well be true!

I've shot 185 & 200 gr Bergers, 210 gr JLKs, and 208 gr Hornady Amax through my current FTR barrel and all three are SUPER accurate. Is it the barrel or bullets? I'm thinking it's a combination of both.

 

[dkhunt14]

Maybe so
How will you ever know if you can reload equal to the competition if you've never seen what a custom bullet can do

That's what they have calipers, micrometers and other measuring devices for. Matt

 

[dkhunt14]

The number of bullets being used in
f class that aren't custom. I think is more due to availability
As more custom Bullet makers offer bullets to these competitors I think you will see a distinctive shift from the norm

In F-class I don't think a great amount will switch over because of the amount of bullets they shoot and what is needed to win. Now in long range BR that is a different story. Matt

 

[Tim Singleton]

That's what they have calipers, micrometers and other measuring devices for. Matt

Im not sure if your talking about measuring the bullet itself
They can measure and weigh perfect and shoot for crap

 

[clowdis]

The number of bullets being used in
f class that aren't custom. I think is more due to availability
As more custom Bullet makers offer bullets to these competitors I think you will see a distinctive shift from the norm

Most custom bullets seem to be for benchrest and not the heavy bullets that are used in long range F-class matches. No super custom 210 grain .30 caliber bullets. Well, there is Alan Warner but very expensive.