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Barrels

The barrel on my first Palma rifle was a 1:13 twist, with bore dimensions of .3065 x .298, a "tight" Palma barrel. My second (current) barrel is still a 1:13 twist, but has bore dimensions of .3075 x .298. From what I have been reading, the thought process on barrels has changed. Gone are the days of the .3065 barrels. There is a perception that a 1:13 is no longer the twist of choice for 155's. I've read where 1:10 twists are being used for 155's, and some of the longer (monolithic) bullets require that or faster. I've also seen reference to .308 x .300 bore dimensions.

What is the common thinking on the bore dimensions (lands and grooves) and barrel twist?

John Corning
 
I have a 26" .308/.300" Bartlein 10" twist on a Pierce action that shoots 155.5 Bergers extremely well. Some past truisms are no longer valid due to much higher bullet quality. Tight bores and minimum twists are not needed if bullets are uniformly .308" and high quality.
 
If I were shooting a 155 Lapua Senar 1-12 or 1-13 would be my choice. I would opt for speed over twist.

I prefer the 11 twist for 168-175 gr projectiles
Just me of course
Jim
 
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.308 x .300 would be a must for heavy class .308 bullets that tend to have a longer bearing surface as well. Tighter dimensions will shoot with very good precision but will tend to show pressure signs at much lower FPS. There is a risk that fouling and loss of precision will occur earlier too. I assume there would be a corresponding heat increase with tighter dimensions too.
Modern bullets appear to be less affected by a faster twist rate with respect to precision and in some cases manufacturers are suggesting a faster twist to get the full BC.
A faster twist is counter intuitive to raw precision, however TR and F class are about the balance of precision, BC, FPS and consistency.
 
John,
Another vote for .300/.308 here. 12-twist is my preference, but I’ve had several 13’s also and they have all shot great. Honestly, I couldn’t tell the difference in performance between the two with Sierra 2-56’s or Berger 155 hybrids. I’ve used Bartlein, Brux, and Krieger, and all have been excellent. Wouldn’t hesitate to buy whichever of those 3 was available.

Good luck,
Erik
 
No discussion of barrels would be complete without addressing "freebore". Any value to "freebore" on a Palma rifle, or is that more relegated to the heavier .308 bullets?
 
No discussion of barrels would be complete without addressing "freebore". Any value to "freebore" on a Palma rifle, or is that more relegated to the heavier .308 bullets?

I don’t know a lot about it, to be honest with you. I bought a 2011 Fullbore reamer a few years ago, and I just have my gunsmith use that whenever I have a barrel done.
 
No discussion of barrels would be complete without addressing "freebore". Any value to "freebore" on a Palma rifle, or is that more relegated to the heavier .308 bullets?
I don't think the thinking has changed in this area. FB - long enough to keep the bearing surface out of a donut. Long enough to fit enough powder in, short enough to cater for wear and the bearing surface to sit deep enough in the neck to keep the bullet straight.
 
I've used a number of Bartlein .308 barrels with 0.299" and more recently, 0.300" bore diameter. Frankly, if there is a difference due to .001" bore diameter variance, I think it is largely overshadowed by other normal barrel-to-barrel variance. I recall hearing somewhere that the origin of the Palma 0.298" bore had something to do with slightly undersized (diameter) bullets that were provided to competitors at some point in the past, but I don't recall exactly where I heard that.

As far as freebore, the neck length of a .308 case (SAAMI) is approximately 0.303". To keep the boattail/bearing surface between the neck/shoulder junction and halfway out the neck means you have about 0.150" freebore length "adjustment" for various bullets. That's really quite a bit of leeway. For those that use a no-turn neck chamber, donuts don't seem to be the issue with a .308 that they are in some other cartridges. In my hands, a .085" freebore is plenty for the vast majority of lead core bullets under 185 gr. With that freebore, I can just barely seat 185 Juggernauts with the boattail/bearing surface junction above the neck/shoulder junction. Accordingly, pressure at any given velocity is higher than it would be with a more generous freebore. Dave Kiff at PTG makes a reamer designed for the Juggernaut that cuts .168" freebore. IMO, that's really more than is absolutely necessary. I load 185 Hybrids, 210 JLKs, and the 200.20X bullet in a chamber with 0.180" freebore; they seem to work just fine. Some of the newer 200 gr offerings with exceptional BCs (200 Sierra MK, 200 Jack) have actually gone the other direction. A freebore in the .090" to .120" is sufficient due to the shorter bearing surfaces. For comparison, I've also loaded the 200.20X bullet in a rifle with just such a relatively short freebore and they work ok...at .010 off the lands they are seated pretty close to the neck/shoulder, but not below. The bottom line is that the information necessary to determine an optimal freebore range for a given bullet is usually available online or in various books such as Bryan Litz' "Ballistic Performance of Rifle Bullets". Clearly a single freebore length may not always be optimal over the entire wide range of .308 bullets currently available, but with about 0.150" neck length to play with, it shouldn't be too difficult to choose something that will work for a number of different bullet options.

For Berger's 155 offerings, the 155 Hybrid requires a little faster twist than does the Fullbore or VLD, but a 12-twist should be sufficient for all of them under most conditions. In the 185 weight class, an 11-twist will usually be sufficient. For the 200 gr class and up, you'll generally want a 10-twist or better, although myself and others here have all found an 11-twist to be sufficient for the Berger 200.20X and 210 JLK bullets, even if it is not fully "optimal". In terms of the monolithics, they are a whole different ball game. Because the sectional density is lower, they are much longer for a given weight class and therefore require much faster twist rates, typically around 9.5 to 9.0, or even faster. I would generally choose a twist rate based on the whatever was the fastest twist rate required amongst the various bullets I intended to shoot out of a particular rifle. For example, the 200 Jack bullet is long enough (~1.578") that even a 10-twist is theoretically not sufficient according to Berger's Twist Rate Calculator. I'd probably go with a 9.75- or 9.5-twist if I were going to order it directly from Bartlein. However, 9.0-twist barrels are often immediately available at online vendors. I recently ordered a couple barrels and didn't want to wait several months, and so I went with 9.0-twist barrels from Bugholes. The 200.20Xs and 200 Jacks seem to be working just fine with a slightly faster-than-necessary twist. As with bore/groove configurations and freebore lengths, I think you have enough play that there isn't any single "correct" answer. With twist rate, I'd rather it be sufficient for the longest bullet I intended to use, even if it meant spinning some other bullet a little faster than necessary. But that's just my personal preference. Regardless, even with the current availability of various competitive bullets, I think there is more than enough play in each of these parameters to set up a rifle capable of shooting several different bullets well. In other words, with a little planning it doesn't necessarily have to be optimized for one specific bullet to the exclusion of all others.
 
This is a PNW thing as of now on Our Palma barrels (Small Group ).

We have a small shop fellow shooter making Barrels.
His 1-12 LH Twist Barrels Drive Tacks. With 2156's 155.5's and 155 HB . He and us the customers like the 95 Palma Chamber.
I had a Krieger 1-13 RH .298X .0375 Full Bore Reamer . with 2156's I thought there was to much free bore ? = not a lot of Bullet in the neck of case.
It shot great.

I and playing with a 300x308 1-10 as I write. I had my other Barrel Plumer use the Free Bore Reamer ( had the Reamer). Not a good idea.
I found not enough Free Bore for 185 and 200 gr. Bullets .
With the help from this Forum and others. Back to the Chamber with a Throater and things are getting better.
I now under stand that there is a 2013 Team Reamer PTG that is just right for the job .

On Krieger's Web Site there was a good article on Tight Bore .308 Barrels ? Basic statement NOT FOR HEAVY BULLET do to High Pressure.

There was always the Story I was told years back (Older GUY) Tight Bore Palma barrels where for Poor English Military Ammo with irregular Dia. Bullets .
This Ammo is No longer issued.

Best of Luck with your choice of Barrel !
Don
 
I think most people use normal 308x300 barrels these days. The tight bores, if I'm not mistaken, was to address issued ammo in years long gone. Twist should be as slow as you can get away with while still providing an adequate Sg to avoid unnecessary yaw. For palma, it's not very important. The ranges are long enough and the 155s are designed by rule to not be ballistically optimal for that range. Wind is everything and the 155s are low enough in BC that a tiny bit more or less isn't going to matter. And neither is the slight increase in accuracy from a slower twist.

As for freebore, you can get away with a pretty wide range. I've used Juggernauts in a .200 freebore without problems. The PTG "FTR" reamer is spec'd at 170. I recently bought one, and it's not what it says - it's actually 185, which is annoying. So be careful about that. Some people like to seat the bullets well into the neck, others don't mind seating them further out. I'm in the latter camp. Palma shooters tend to have about 50 thous of freebore, while TR shooters tend to have about 170. With the trend towards longer nosed bullets (and therefore shorter bearing surface), requirements for freebore are dropping with the heavies. The only real downside to too little freebore is that you give up case capacity, and therefore a little velocity.
 

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