Frustrations of trying to help

[dcali]

The trick is not to offer help that isn't specifically asked for (or a matter of safety, obviously). "help me at the range" is not the same as "tell me how to do everything step by step." Asking for help and having someone proceed to baby you through everything can be annoying.

 

[swd]

I had guy next to me that was trying to sight his rifle in and was having a really hard time. After watching him struggle for quite a while I asked if he wanted some help. He said sure. I pulled the bolt out and bore sighted it. And then put the first shot on paper. His jaw dropped and he thanked me many times and said he’d never seen anything like that before, lol. It just depends on the person..

 

[dgeesaman]

On the other side, I find many issues with some of those who want to give advice or instruct. The biggest impediment is, it is more important for them to show off their knowledge and skills than it is for someone to learn them. I think that is nature, but often the primary purpose is lost in the process. There is the tendency to talk to much and too fast. It's also a nature that people wish for a shortcut to success and it's nature to offer it, even when we know there are few shortcuts to knowledge and skills. Teachers, instructors, and coaches can help a student progress more expediently than the hard way of trial and error, nonetheless students need time to absorb the knowledge and develop the physical skills. Just some of my observations. Regardless I tip my hat to those that over to help others, and that is nature at work. Although I've been a teacher, instructor, and coach in three different industries, I'm always first a student.

Sadly, this is very true.

I'm sure a few of these "they won't learn" stories have some element of ineffective teaching as well. I don't know which ones are, so its up to each of us to self-assess.

Being an effective teacher is a whole other way of thinking. Having subject knowledge is only a prerequisite - providing the right information, at the right time, in the right way - is essential.

I won't pick on shooting instruction specifically but I have been on the golf driving range to witness horrible 'instruction' more than a few times. It might as well be a reality show.

My best advice is to remember a few things:
- students remember maybe 15% of what you tell them
- students should be focused on doing most of the time, so your talking will only be heard a small portion of the time. Teach when the student is actively listening and spend the rest of the time observing them learn.
- there is no way or reason to try and tell them everything they 'need' to know in one lesson. Pick the one or two most important items for them to learn and absorb and let them do it.
- when the student asks a question, don't smother it with answers. Make sure you are clear on the specific context of the question (big picture? a specific situation?) before answering.
- repeating your message is good teaching. Giving them a new message when they just barely absorbed the first message will erase the first one.
- students have no way to judge your depth of knowledge. they definitely take away how you make them feel about learning from you.

 

[Eagle Six]

@dgeesaman, you speak words of wisdom.

 

[David Milisock]

So I'm no competition winning bench rest guy but I post a lot of my shooting and load development on Facebook and I'll have guys ask to if they can come to the range with me and have me help. hem shoot better .Just curious for y'all that get asked to help more , average shooters , what's are some of your most common frustrations you get ?
For me it's guys just trying to be all macho or just people being terrified to mess with their guns .
Like getting alot of people ( mainly men, just about every women I've helped has been super receptive and easy to work with men....not so much) to do stuff like adjust their scopes so they have a good comfortable set up ,use a front rest/bipod or God forbid a rear bag ( usually just a bean bag or sand sock nothing crazy) is such a fight. Like they feel it's an attack on them or something. Like I've legit had people scream at me freaking out when I told them we need to adjust there scope and I pull out a set of Allen keys. O and also peoel with the cheapest mixed ammo they can get . Like getting some peoel to realize that their 5 130gr silver tips thier 3 140 vmaxes and 7 125 whatever are all gonna shoot different is ... difficult at times
Anyhow what's y'all most common frustrations?

You should try and help people with photography, image editing and graphics. They buy programs that require $4,000 of calibrated systems and try to run it on a $600 POS laptop from Best Buy. Add that to them being a dunce!

Some peoples children.

 

[NorCalMikie]

If you try to help and the person needing the help knows more that YOU do??? Been nice knowing you.

 

[jimmymac]

I always appreciate when some heavy hitter lays a nugget on me. An open minded approach is critical. I learn more everyday.

 

[Bottom Fodder]

Just remember you can spend 30 mins on the internet and become a world class reloaded and shooter ‍

 

[dcali]

Just remember you can spend 30 mins on the internet and become a world class reloaded and shooter ‍

On the flip side, 30 minutes on the internet can save you countless hours and thousands of wasted dollars. People would do well to read before they do.

 

[Old Navy]

Just remember you can spend 30 mins on the internet and become a world class reloaded and shooter ‍

Took me 30 minutes a day for the last 20 years and I am still learning.

 

[Bottom Fodder]

On the flip side, 30 minutes on the internet can save you countless hours and thousands of wasted dollars. People would do well to read before they do.

Yes there is some good info on here but some also miss leading info on here, you just have to learn what to filter or you could waste even more

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach. Maybe why we have reading, writing,math and science competency problems with high school students. Critical thinking has been crushed by woke idiots.

 

[dbduff]

And then there is the range safety aspect of all of this. You give them the rundown of the do's and don'ts and they give you that wild eyed look like you are an alien. This is about the time they will let you know that they know all about that stuff because, 1) they were in the AF reserve, 2) National Guard and worse yet, 3) a Marine Scout Sniper. In their eyes, the safety aspect doesn't apply to them

Don’t forget the Seals. The one I’m acquainted with is hard headed as they come.

 

[wwbrown]

When trying to help an unknown shooter reduce their groups I have often asked if they would allow someone else, ideally a known sound shooter, get behind their gun and see how they shoot that quickly shows where to focus your energies on the gun or the shooter. Most people when offered that quietly say they have it all figured out it is an ego thing as it it is hard to risk having someone get behind their gun and drive it to a small group. I have found that women haev an easier time allowing someone else behind their gun to get the diagnosis down and fix it.

 

[209jones]

I think too many people don't like reading, especially a book. If they'd read a reloading manual and look at a video right after reading a section, it would probably help sort out some of the issues they have. But, there are a great many sketchy videos that leave a lot of detail out, and the problem with that is, the newbie doesn't know that, in order to be able look at those vids and catch that, or what is a dicy practice or not.

 

[Brians356]

Convince a man against his will,
He's of the same opinion still.
-

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Women are much better students, almost always....and prettier.
edit...Is "women" still an allowed pronoun on here?

 

[Brians356]

When trying to help an unknown shooter reduce their groups I have often asked if they would allow someone else, ideally a known sound shooter, get behind their gun and see how they shoot that quickly shows where to focus your energies on the gun or the shooter. Most people when offered that quietly say they have it all figured out it is an ego thing as it it is hard to risk having someone get behind their gun and drive it to a small group.

As a newbie accuracy handloader I leaped at the chance when an experienced guy at the range offered to shoot a couple of groups from my rifle. Humility is a virtue.
-

 

[lost okie]

Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach. Maybe why we have reading, writing,math and science competency problems with high school students. Critical thinking has been crushed by woke idiots.

In defense of the good instructors out there:

Those that do know; do.
Those that understand; teach.
Aristotle
I agree with you on the school problems.

 

[ebb]

UUthink uknow being that most of us are not going yo make anyone angry enough to kill us as we exit the range after a shooting session, should this route of egress have a stop along the way for an adult beverage ? I am glad al of your routes of egress were good ones and you are here today to be on this forum