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Frustrations of trying to help

Wolfdog91

Silver $$ Contributor
So I'm no competition winning bench rest guy but I post a lot of my shooting and load development on Facebook and I'll have guys ask to if they can come to the range with me and have me help. hem shoot better .Just curious for y'all that get asked to help more , average shooters , what's are some of your most common frustrations you get ?
For me it's guys just trying to be all macho or just people being terrified to mess with their guns .
Like getting alot of people ( mainly men, just about every women I've helped has been super receptive and easy to work with men....not so much) to do stuff like adjust their scopes so they have a good comfortable set up ,use a front rest/bipod or God forbid a rear bag ( usually just a bean bag or sand sock nothing crazy) is such a fight. Like they feel it's an attack on them or something. Like I've legit had people scream at me freaking out when I told them we need to adjust there scope and I pull out a set of Allen keys. O and also peoel with the cheapest mixed ammo they can get . Like getting some peoel to realize that their 5 130gr silver tips thier 3 140 vmaxes and 7 125 whatever are all gonna shoot different is ... difficult at times o_O
Anyhow what's y'all most common frustrations?
 
So I'm no competition winning bench rest guy but I post a lot of my shooting and load development on Facebook and I'll have guys ask to if they can come to the range with me and have me help. hem shoot better .Just curious for y'all that get asked to help more , average shooters , what's are some of your most common frustrations you get ?
For me it's guys just trying to be all macho or just people being terrified to mess with their guns .
Like getting alot of people ( mainly men, just about every women I've helped has been super receptive and easy to work with men....not so much) to do stuff like adjust their scopes so they have a good comfortable set up ,use a front rest/bipod or God forbid a rear bag ( usually just a bean bag or sand sock nothing crazy) is such a fight. Like they feel it's an attack on them or something. Like I've legit had people scream at me freaking out when I told them we need to adjust there scope and I pull out a set of Allen keys. O and also peoel with the cheapest mixed ammo they can get . Like getting some peoel to realize that their 5 130gr silver tips thier 3 140 vmaxes and 7 125 whatever are all gonna shoot different is ... difficult at times o_O
Anyhow what's y'all most common frustrations?
I’ve gone through this in teaching fly casting, ego and fear of temporary regression when adjusting to a new form is debilitating to learning and progress.
 
Going though that right now, they ask for your help and when try you get that “I’ve been shooting all my life” or “ I know how to reload”
O Jesus Christ that makes my eye twitch when I hear that ! What makes it worse is I'm 25 and some of the guys who ask for help are older then me so they constantly wanna pull their age and "experience". Then if you try to be frank and tell them their acting like a child your being a rude brat :(
 
I’ve gone through this in teaching fly casting, ego and fear of temporary regression when adjusting to a new form is debilitating to learning and progress.
Yep, especially when you have to try and go back over the basics with someone
 
Ever hear the old saying on advice, "Wise men don't need it, fool won't heed it."

I do not offer advice unless asked with one exception, if I observe a safety issue. Then I politely as possible confront the violator. If the shooter becomes aggressive, I leave and report his card number to the range committee officers.

I spend 2 to 3 days at the rifle range and the same at the pistol range. After being involved in the shooting sports for over 50+ years I have seen just about everything conceivable at the ranges. It worse today than it has ever been in my experience, especially safety violators.

I've have help many of big game hunters' sight in their rifle for expensive trips out West, Alaska, and Canada but only upon request. It is truly amazing that a guy can buy a thousand dollar+ rifle and scope and not understand the basic fundamentals aspects of sighting in a rifle for field hunting use and the fundamentals of rifle marksmanship.

Range time should be productive and fun but most of all safe. Don't get frustrated - life is too short. I have a lot of friends at the range that I can engage and enjoy our exchanges. However, I'm very cautious about engaging strangers. If I detect an attitude - I back away.
 
Worked for a number of years with the 4-H shooting sports youngsters and putting 1500 students thru the NRA basic pistol course when VA change from a may issue to a will issue CCW permit policy. The young female shooters listened and paid attention to instructions and progressed more rapidly to becoming marksmen ( marks-person, marks-woman in today's culture ?) The males, on the other hand, were impeded in learning by an overabundance of of ego, folklore and testosterone. Many of the young fellows eventually came to the realization that the ladies were shooting better and more consistent scores because they were employing the basic fundamentals of position, trigger control, sight alignment and breath control as opposed to techniques observed in the latest Rambo or Terminator film.

At this point in life if someone ask for advice related to firearms and shooting my response is " I am not an expert but this is what works for me. You may want to try it and see if it works for you".
 
Yep, especially when you have to try and go back over the basics with someone
I was 25YO once and had already been reloading for five years. Guess what?
I DIDN'T KNOW S##T!
It isn't just reloading either. Many times when I took time to help another shooter with a problem the true interaction (two-way dialogue) helped me see an answer to some mechanic of my gun handling I had let get rusty.
As I have grown much older, had two careers in totally different arenas, and have had occasion not only to be taught but to teach others there is something I learned along the way.
The best way to teach is listen to the pupil. I have learned things while teaching others simply because I heard questions from them that made me think and rethink exactly why I do things the way I do them.
I see this type thread way too many times on here (and other forums) and the one thing I'm sure of is threads like this, more often than not, are conditioning those who truly want/need help to not ask for fear of being the victim of the next thread like this.
 
I try to avoid giving advice because of this. The one piece I do give out, is you should not rest your barrel on the front rest. Put the stock on it.
And the AR corollary - resting the magazine on the bench is not a good idea, either. Sometimes, people will look at you like you have two heads and proceed to shoot 6-inch patterns at 50 yards. Most relent when shown the difference it makes on target, but there are some . . .
 
Worked for a number of years with the 4-H shooting sports youngsters and putting 1500 students thru the NRA basic pistol course when VA change from a may issue to a will issue CCW permit policy. The young female shooters listened and paid attention to instructions and progressed more rapidly to becoming marksmen ( marks-person, marks-woman in today's culture ?) The males, on the other hand, were impeded in learning by an overabundance of of ego, folklore and testosterone. Many of the young fellows eventually came to the realization that the ladies were shooting better and more consistent scores because they were employing the basic fundamentals of position, trigger control, sight alignment and breath control as opposed to techniques observed in the latest Rambo or Terminator film.

At this point in life if someone ask for advice related to firearms and shooting my response is " I am not an expert but this is what works for me. You may want to try it and see if it works for you".
You summed up a lot of what I noticed in my little bit of "teaching" and I use that term pretty loosely lol. I've posted before a out this but I got my GF into shooting then a bunch of her girl friends ended up asking to come along and learn and they all got it very quickly. Almost always pretty talkative about if a gun don't feel good or if the scope wasn't looking right ,asking alot of questions ect. Within the first 10rd they where usually drilling nice little groups at 25-50 with my .22lrs. Their boyfriends how ever....yeeesh . Like you said ego folklore and testosterone. Also alot of good nuff-itis. Their GF's would be taking their time on trigger squeezes ,building their positions, breathing and getting a good zero but alot of their bf would do stuff like prop up on a fence pole pop one round in the target to get a feel where it was hitting and then call it good enough..only to have their GF dominant them where we went to the little KYL spinner target. Gotta say is kinda fun to watch the girls rig eveyone then ask for it to get moved out more and more while their bfs get a lil frustrated :D
And I will say I usually try to do the last thing you mentioned,more of the. Then not really. I'm 5'1" so some of the stuff I do isn't the best for eveyone so I'll tell people ,like you said , this I want I do and it works for me you should try it and see, but alot of folks that that as " this is how you do it !" Also reccomended people go watch stuff like the vortex podcast where they get really in depth explaining stuff or even join this forum and asked much more experienced people ( I know y'all have been a great help to me since I joined :) ) but more often then not they don't. Most people want a microwave A+B=C answer it seems.
 
O Jesus Christ that makes my eye twitch when I hear that ! What makes it worse is I'm 25 and some of the guys who ask for help are older then me so they constantly wanna pull their age and "experience". Then if you try to be frank and tell them their acting like a child your being a rude brat :(
And then there is the range safety aspect of all of this. You give them the rundown of the do's and don'ts and they give you that wild eyed look like you are an alien. This is about the time they will let you know that they know all about that stuff because, 1) they were in the AF reserve, 2) National Guard and worse yet, 3) a Marine Scout Sniper. In their eyes, the safety aspect doesn't apply to them
 
A wise old man once told me that God gave us two ears and one mouth because he was trying to tell us something.
I am certainly not the most experienced shooter, but I have decent skills for an old veteran and experienced hunter. My rifles are nothing special, and the gear in my range cart is fairly standard, but it works well.
People do sometimes approach me with questions mostly because I must look the part of someone more knowledgeable.
Before I offer advice to anyone, I usually ask them if they would like to hear it.
People are less resistant to heeding advice if they do not feel like they are being judged in the process of hearing it.
Reading "How to Win Friends and Influence People" about 45 years ago was time well spent.
Then of course, there is "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink". Those people just get a "good luck" from me and I walk away. Not worth elevating my blood pressure.
 
My old boss has a Kenny Jarret rifle he spent a bunch of money on. He lost one of the screws on some scope rings that were marginal. I said why not get some really good rings that are more fitting to the quality of the rifle? No. no we can't touch it. Just get me a screw. So local hardware doesn't have the right thing and he is in a rush so I order a whole box of 100 from Grainger. I know they are different than what came with the rings, but I have enough to replace them all. No nO No just replace to one that is missing, But they don't match and I had to buy 100 to get the right size. I will torque then with an inch pound torque wrench and it will be better than they are now. The one that was lost wasn't even tight, or it would still be in the ring. if I torque them all the will all be the same and won't loose them. No jus replace the one, it can be different I don't care
 

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