Fclass Rifle Actions

[KT]

anyone with first hand experience on Deviant actions?

I have a deviant action on my 300wsm. It's a huge beefy action. It's not as smooth as my BAT but it's pretty darn good. I have no complaints. Plus their customer service was top notch.

I really don't think it matter's who's action you go with Kelby, BAT, Stiller, Borden, Defiance, Pierce, Barnard etc. They are all great quality actions.

Jim Crofts won the FTR nationals with a (Savage Action), so it still comes down to the shooter. Pick what suits your eye or what you can actually get your hands on and build the gun.

 

[Erik Cortina]

Panda actions are doing very well in FTR and F Open. I spoke to Paul Phillips last week from Team Sinclair and they have NEVER lost a FTR match and have won the Nationals (6 times) and worlds. Paul informed me just as we know here at Kelbly's Aluminum actions shoot smaller than Steel or stainless. Paul and Team Sinclair switched to F Class Pandas and they shoot a new world record last month in the US Nationals. The aluminum deadens the vibrations. Those that use stainless are now using wood stock in short range and long range to reduce vibrations. If that works for Steel actions just think how much better a aluminum action is in a wood stock, oh yea Larry Barthelemy won Nationals and worlds in 2013 shooting a Stolle in a wood stock. Also the Stolle actions have the best fire ignition system, too give more consistent ignition from shot to shot.

As I have seen it the F Class Panda is winning alot of matches, and especially the big matches.

Look in short range a new world record was shot at 100 yards .008ths and this was with a Stolle Panda Action. Use what is winning and shot a Stolle F Class Panda

Jim

Jim, a correction to your post. Larry B. won the 2013 Nationals but not the Worlds. Kenny Adams won the World Championship, but Kenny also used an F-Class Panda.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Panda actions are doing very well in FTR and F Open. I spoke to Paul Phillips last week from Team Sinclair and they have NEVER lost a FTR match and have won the Nationals (6 times) and worlds. Paul informed me just as we know here at Kelbly's Aluminum actions shoot smaller than Steel or stainless. Paul and Team Sinclair switched to F Class Pandas and they shoot a new world record last month in the US Nationals. The aluminum deadens the vibrations. Those that use stainless are now using wood stock in short range and long range to reduce vibrations. If that works for Steel actions just think how much better a aluminum action is in a wood stock, oh yea Larry Barthelemy won Nationals and worlds in 2013 shooting a Stolle in a wood stock. Also the Stolle actions have the best fire ignition system, too give more consistent ignition from shot to shot.

As I have seen it the F Class Panda is winning alot of matches, and especially the big matches.

Look in short range a new world record was shot at 100 yards .008ths and this was with a Stolle Panda Action. Use what is winning and shot a Stolle F Class Panda

Jim

I believe this to be true.
Alex

 

[kerjo]

After reading the previous discussion, I'm very happy I ordered an Arcas Tactical Rifle with the new Atlas Repeater Action from Ian a couple of months ago. The Kelbly's have built me two short range BR rifles and they are both excellent shooters. The Kelbly's are great to do business also. It will be hard waiting for the rifle to be built.

 

[savageshooter86]

On the Panda action what is benefit of the 0.68 firing pin vs the larger one?

 

[Erik Cortina]

On the Panda action what is benefit of the 0.68 firing pin vs the larger one?

Will handle more pressure without primer cratering. Get the small one for sure.

 

[JRS]

Put your hard earned money towards the best:

Kelbly F-Class action, March scope, and Bib's bullets ;D

 

[James A. Kelbly]

The .068 firing pin is great for not blowing primers, but this can also lead to not letting you know when you have a problem in reloading. If you are reloading incorrectly and a primer would normally blow in a .075ths FP hole and you have a .068th FP hole and it will not blow, then you assume all is ok and continue to shoot a problem load. This is why we here at Kelbly's personally use a .075ths pin diameter tip, to show us when a problem exists.

This brings up another point, picatinny bases and rings, I am really surprised that in true competition that anyone uses a picatinny system. You do know that picatinny systems were designed for military, so that when scope comes loose, you can still kill a man, we call this minute of man. Now I know of several people who have picatinny system and their scope came slightly loose and the shooter did not realize it till much later in match after shooting terrible, and finally scope gets loose enough that shooter finally notices it is loose. Had the shooter used a dovetail system, the shooter would have seen scope was loose after scope starts to move. Problem is solved in first group. Of course you should always check scope screws, especially if driving or flying a long way. They do come loose. Just curious why anyone would us a picatinny system.

Jim

 

[Jay Christopherson]

The .068 firing pin is great for not blowing primers, but this can also lead to not letting you know when you have a problem in reloading. If you are reloading incorrectly and a primer would normally blow in a .075ths FP hole and you have a .068th FP hole and it will not blow, then you assume all is ok and continue to shoot a problem load. This is why we here at Kelbly's personally use a .075ths pin diameter tip, to show us when a problem exists.

This brings up another point, picatinny bases and rings, I am really surprised that in true competition that anyone uses a picatinny system. You do know that picatinny systems were designed for military, so that when scope comes loose, you can still kill a man, we call this minute of man. Now I know of several people who have picatinny system and their scope came slightly loose and the shooter did not realize it till much later in match after shooting terrible, and finally scope gets loose enough that shooter finally notices it is loose. Had the shooter used a dovetail system, the shooter would have seen scope was loose after scope starts to move. Problem is solved in first group. Of course you should always check scope screws, especially if driving or flying a long way. They do come loose. Just curious why anyone would us a picatinny system.
Jim

I'm one of the users of your (non-standard spacing... :-/) picatinny system, on two different Panda's. I've always used a picatinny system. I like being able to remove my scope and return it to the same position without fiddling. I share my match scope (a March) across several rifles and it returns to zero every single time - or at least, it's close enough that I can't tell the difference on paper at any range. I've even swapped it to a new rifle, in the middle of a match (non-registered event), without issue. I also don't store my rifles in the safe with the scope on them - I use a scope rack to hold my scopes and I end up with a lot more room in my safe. Pull it out of the same, swap it onto the picatinny base of the rifle I'm shooting, and I'm ready to go. All of my rifles using picatinny rails have the same standard spacing ( well, except for two... ;-) ), so I can shoot any scope on any rifle, assuming I've kept the proper log with regards to scope zero settings for that rifle.


I've never, across dozens of rigs and two decades, had a scope come loose. Even under hard mountain hiking/hunting conditions. I don't know why anyone would NOT use one... You use a dovetail system, and you are really limiting your ring selection, IMO. I'm personally not a fan of the Kelbly rings (from an aesthetic POV only, as well as the fact that I don't use dovetail rails) and I've never bothered to look to see if anyone else sells dovetail rings. There might be other options out there, but I wouldn't know.

 

[savageshooter86]

I would like pic rail so I could swap scope between FTR rifle and this one

I went with Panda Fclass! No ejector, 0.68 pin, coned bolt face, dual port, 20 moa pic rail. Polished

Thanks for all the help

 

[James A. Kelbly]

The scope swap thing, I get it and now understand the reason to use picatinny. But here is more info. Lou Murdica did a test in his tunnel where he mounted a scope on a rail gun and checked it everyday. For over two weeks the scope changed point of impact, just sitting there, no firing. So it took two weeks for the different metals to settle down before scope quit moving around. So changing scopes especially in short range br shooting is not recommended and in long range could be difference of a 10 instead of an X. My recommendation is to keep scope on rifle all the time to avoid one more possible problem. More food for thought.

Jim

 

[Scott Harris]

Jim, no issue with your recommendation not to remove the scope for best accuracy. But, I'm not sure you understand the complete rationale for using a pic rail. It's the most robust, repeatable system available. It is designed to handle the heaviest abuse without moving: the ring cross-bar is pressed firmly against the rail slot. If a scope comes loose, it's because loctite wasn't used on the screws. As Jay said, the real question should be, "why wouldn't you use a picatinny rail?" and if you are going to make one....it should conform to the existing standards so as to be compatible with other rings.

 

[Jay Christopherson]

The scope swap thing, I get it and now understand the reason to use picatinny. But here is more info. Lou Murdica did a test in his tunnel where he mounted a scope on a rail gun and checked it everyday. For over two weeks the scope changed point of impact, just sitting there, no firing. So it took two weeks for the different metals to settle down before scope quit moving around. So changing scopes especially in short range br shooting is not recommended and in long range could be difference of a 10 instead of an X. My recommendation is to keep scope on rifle all the time to avoid one more possible problem. More food for thought.

Jim

That is pretty interesting - if I shot short range BR, I'd probably be re-evaluating my practice, but for score shooting (F-Class) it hasn't caused a problem on paper (or on deer/elk for that matter) for me...

 

[savageshooter86]

Will my burris sig rings on my Sightron not work with Kelbly pic rail?

 

[Erik Cortina]

Will my burris sig rings on my Sightron not work with Kelbly pic rail?

You mean you didn't order a March scope and Kelbly polished rings for your new rifle?

 

[Jay Christopherson]

Will my burris sig rings on my Sightron not work with Kelbly pic rail?

The rings will work fine - it's the lug spacing on the rail that is an issue. Being non-standard spacing (i.e., not mil-spec), once you mount your scope on the Kelbly pic rail, you won't be able to mount it on any other pic rail, unless you get creative and have one custom made... I have a nice CAD drawing of the spacing if anyone wants it, to have a custom rail made. When I was running a Barnard and a Panda, I had a custom rail made for my Barnard to match the spec on my Panda's integral pic rail. To their credit (and my surprise, really), Kelbly's did not leave me twisting in the wind on that. Which is why I own another Panda now... I really do like dealing with them.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

This brings up another point, picatinny bases and rings, I am really surprised that in true competition that anyone uses a picatinny system. You do know that picatinny systems were designed for military, so that when scope comes loose, you can still kill a man, we call this minute of man. Now I know of several people who have picatinny system and their scope came slightly loose and the shooter did not realize it till much later in match after shooting terrible, and finally scope gets loose enough that shooter finally notices it is loose. Had the shooter used a dovetail system, the shooter would have seen scope was loose after scope starts to move. Problem is solved in first group. Of course you should always check scope screws, especially if driving or flying a long way. They do come loose. Just curious why anyone would us a picatinny system.

Jim

No kidding. This occurred with then-new F-TR rifle with the Panda F-class action, during the 2012 Nationals in Raton. I had driven from Houston to Raton a few days before and did not know about checking the screws after a long road trip. After shooting a second miss on target, I got up and picked up my rifle and noticed the scope had come off the rail. Thankfully I had tools with me and I was able to remount the scope before my next relay and I used the 2 sighters to get the scope "zeroed." What fun.

 

[savageshooter86]

Not yet Erik


Do kelbly rings require lapping?

 

[James A. Kelbly]

Kelbly rings do not require lapping when mounted on a Stolle action. On anything else I would check to see if you need lapping, I am sure most custom actions other than Stolle should not need lapped, but not making those other actions I can not say for sure.

Jim

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Lapping rings is not a good idea. If your rings are so bad they require work, send them back.

The Kelbly rings on top of my Panda F-class are superb and just needed tightening after a long ride. But only the first time. They never moved after that one time though and I check them with a torque wrench periodically.