Electric Cars -- anyone own one?

[muleman69]

I bought into byd (byddy) when i heard about this. Although i ended up making money it fell flat on its face. I can only imagine there were a bunch of politicians got in way before me and they did well

I read somewhere that Hunter is into The Telsa thing (could be the minerals for the Batts). Go figure

 

[stosh]

My .02 woth. The greenies want electric cars because they are "clean"! THEY ARE NOT! The electricity doesn't come from electric trees! We produce approximately 90% of our electricity by burning fossil fuels! There are studies that say electric cars actually produce more co2 if total car life is compared like mfg. cost etc.! No one it taking about the old batteries and what we are going to do with the lithium (poison). Lastly, I looked at one of the car search engines and looked at the milage on the tesla #3 for sale. It was 73% of the cars had less than 6k miles on them. That tells me people are buying them and are not happy with them and are getting rid of them! My Dr has one but he said he doesn't drive it much! LOL It's called energy density, batteries today can't hold enough power to make them a serious replacement for internal combustion engines! There is a niche market for electric cars but that is all it is. Our government should stay out of trying to force technology when it isn't ready! Obama pissed away billions on green energy companies that went belly up and the owners walked away with billions of tax payer money! How can I tell electric cars don't work, simple. If they worked the government wouldn't have to subsidize them!

 

[Mudeat]

There is NEVI funding to build out charging stations along interstate corridors (level 3 chargers - roughly charge in approximate time to fill tank...). There is also money from the VW settlement. Wyoming is addressing this issue with regards to our tourist industry. The following article provides some useful information.

Casper to Yellowstone with no gas? WYDOT working to welcome electric tourists and hydrogen semis to Wyoming

CASPER, Wyo. — While only a small fraction of Wyoming residents drive electric vehicles, the Wyoming Department of Transportation (WYDOT) sees the build

oilcity.news

Tesla model 3 - An hour to charge from 20% to 80% and 5 hours for a full charge, using level 3 DC charger is a lot longer then “approximate time to fill tank”. No hype

 

[stosh]

Tesla model 3 - An hour to charge from 20% to 80% and 5 hours for a full charge, using level 3 DC charger is a lot longer then “approximate time to fill tank”. No hype

And if there are cars ahead of you , you may be there for some time!

 

[CarlGeorge]

My .02 woth. The greenies want electric cars because they are "clean"! THEY ARE NOT! The electricity doesn't come from electric trees! We produce approximately 90% of our electricity by burning fossil fuels! There are studies that say electric cars actually produce more co2 if total car life is compared like mfg. cost etc.! No one it taking about the old batteries and what we are going to do with the lithium (poison). Lastly, I looked at one of the car search engines and looked at the milage on the tesla #3 for sale. It was 73% of the cars had less than 6k miles on them. That tells me people are buying them and are not happy with them and are getting rid of them! My Dr has one but he said he doesn't drive it much! LOL It's called energy density, batteries today can't hold enough power to make them a serious replacement for internal combustion engines! There is a niche market for electric cars but that is all it is. Our government should stay out of trying to force technology when it isn't ready! Obama pissed away billions on green energy companies that went belly up and the owners walked away with billions of tax payer money!

Teslas are being sold with low miles because the demand is so high. There are scenarios where people are making a profit selling their low-mileage Tesla. Demand is so high people are paying a premium. Depending on the model the wait for a new Tesla is 3-12 months. Tesla can't keep up with demand. Some people on the waiting list are selling their place in line.

When talking about viability of an EV as a road trip car there's a VAST difference between Tesla and everyone else. We've had a Tesla for 4 months. It now has 9,500 miles on it. We've done one 2,000+ road trip (CO/CA round trip) and one 4,000+ road trip (CO/FL). You have to get used to the new model - but doing those trips was not a big deal - thanks to the Supercharger network. Did it take longer than in a gas car? Yes. Was it a lot longer? Not by a long shot. Did we spend extra hotel nights because of needing to charge? No. A road trip in a non-Tesla EV with medium-speed chargers would be a totally different - and most likely not practical - experience.

As Elon Musk has said - and I agree with: There's no need for the government to get involved in charging infrastructure. The market will solve that problem. Capitalism is the most effective natural force to solve consumer problems.

In my posts in this thread I've deliberately stayed away from the environmental issues and focused on facts based on my experiences as a Tesla owner. The bottom line for me is this: Because I believe so much in capitalism I believe the car companies are going to solve the battery chemical and recycling problem - because consumers will and are demanding it. Volkswagen is a good example: They're making progress on recycling and and have targeted some high-percentage of recyclability of batteries relatively soon.

 

[CarlGeorge]

Tesla model 3 - An hour to charge from 20% to 80% and 5 hours for a full charge, using level 3 DC charger is a lot longer then “approximate time to fill tank”. No hype

Where is this info from? This is not my experience.
* At a Supercharger I can go from 20% to 80% in probably 30 mins. Maybe slightly more.
* 20% to 100% at a Supercharger would likely take an hour.

With a gas car you always fill the tank. Since you're stopped the incremental time to go from 3/4 full to full is basically 0. That's not the case with an EV. In our almost 7,000 miles of road trip driving over the last 3 months our battery was only at 100% when we left our home to start the trip. It's not worth the time to go to 100% when on the road. Since the car charges faster when the battery is below 80% you charge enough to get 1 or 2 chargers down the road. It's the best way to maximize effective speed.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Elon Musk is kinda like a skunk. You can’t change it’s stripes and it will always be a skunk even if you buy Twitter and it has the Deep Libs a slight bit worried.

 

[stosh]

Teslas are being sold with low miles because the demand is so high. There are scenarios where people are making a profit selling their low-mileage Tesla. Demand is so high people are paying a premium. Depending on the model the wait for a new Tesla is 3-12 months. Tesla can't keep up with demand. Some people on the waiting list are selling their place in line.

When talking about viability of an EV as a road trip car there's a VAST difference between Tesla and everyone else. We've had a Tesla for 4 months. It now has 9,500 miles on it. We've done one 2,000+ road trip (CO/CA round trip) and one 4,000+ road trip (CO/FL). You have to get used to the new model - but doing those trips was not a big deal - thanks to the Supercharger network. Did it take longer than in a gas car? Yes. Was it a lot longer? Not by a long shot. Did we spend extra hotel nights because of needing to charge? No. A road trip in a non-Tesla EV with medium-speed chargers would be a totally different - and most likely not practical - experience.

As Elon Musk has said - and I agree with: There's no need for the government to get involved in charging infrastructure. The market will solve that problem. Capitalism is the most effective natural force to solve consumer problems.

In my posts in this thread I've deliberately stayed away from the environmental issues and focused on facts based on my experiences as a Tesla owner. The bottom line for me is this: Because I believe so much in capitalism I believe the car companies are going to solve the battery chemical and recycling problem - because consumers will and are demanding it. Volkswagen is a good example: They're making progress on recycling and and have targeted some high-percentage of recyclability of batteries relatively soon.

Then explain my last statement! and please explain why you think they are green?

 

[CarlGeorge]

Then explain my last statement! and please explain why you think they are green?

Your last statement meaning about companies that went belly up? If that's what you're asking for an explanation of my take is this: New technologies, when they're especially new and especially unproven, have lots of failures - because they're new and unproven and not well understood. I'm not going to try and justify any sort of bad government programs that didn't produce results - because they're not justifiable.

You stated there are studies that show total lifecycle ramifications of gas cars is lower than with electric vehicles. I've found the opposite. Below is a link to one. My understanding is the production of the EV is harder on the environment than a gas car, but factoring in differences in operation (including extracting oil, refining and transport of the gasoline) swings the advantage balance to the EV side.

Progress is being made on numerous fronts to improve the EV ecosystem: New chemicals are looking positive to base batteries on. Coal (which only accounts for 20% of US electricity production) is being reduced. The lifespan of the batteries, I believe, will be longer than what many think. People will often point to an 8 year battery life. That's how long the warranty is - not the lifespan. I've heard anecdotal stories of Teslas with hundreds of thousands of miles on them. Lastly, with home solar systems becoming much more prominent, those systems can be (and in my case is) the basis for charging the car. We cover approximately 80-90% of our daily driving needs without pulling any electrons from the grid.

The bottom line for me is this: I've seen a lot of technological advances in my life (as have we all) and I believe EVs are in a state today where, while clearly not perfect, are on the path for massive advances. I think there's sufficient interest and demand from the market where car companies and the market will keep improving on them...in all areas.

A global comparison of the life-cycle greenhouse gas emissions of combustion engine and electric passenger cars - International Council on Clean Transportation

Life-cycle assessment of the greenhouse gas emissions of passenger cars in China, Europe, India, and the United States, which together account for about 70% of new passenger car sales worldwide.

theicct.org

 

[stosh]

Your last statement meaning about companies that went belly up? If that's what you're asking for an explanation of my take is this: New technologies, when they're especially new and especially unproven, have lots of failures - because they're new and unproven and not well understood. I'm not going to try and justify any sort of bad government programs that didn't produce results - because they're not justifiable.

You stated there are studies that show total lifecycle ramifications of gas cars is lower than with electric vehicles. I've found the opposite. Below is a link to one. My understanding is the production of the EV is harder on the environment than a gas car, but factoring in differences in operation (including extracting oil, refining and transport of the gasoline) swings the advantage balance to the EV side.

Progress is being made on numerous fronts to improve the EV ecosystem: New chemicals are looking positive to base batteries on. Coal (which only accounts for 20% of US electricity production) is being reduced. The lifespan of the batteries, I believe, will be longer than what many think. People will often point to an 8 year battery life. That's how long the warranty is - not the lifespan. I've heard anecdotal stories of Teslas with hundreds of thousands of miles on them. Lastly, with home solar systems becoming much more prominent, those systems can be (and in my case is) the basis for charging the car. We cover approximately 80-90% of our daily driving needs without pulling any electrons from the grid.

The bottom line is this: I've seen a lot of technological advances in my life (as have we all) and I believe EVs are in a state today where, while clearly not perfect, are on the path for massive advances. I think there's sufficient interest and demand from the market where car companies and the market will keep improving on them...in all areas.

A global comparison of the life-cycle greenhouse gas emissions of combustion engine and electric passenger cars - International Council on Clean Transportation

Life-cycle assessment of the greenhouse gas emissions of passenger cars in China, Europe, India, and the United States, which together account for about 70% of new passenger car sales worldwide.

theicct.org

I am not opposed to electric vehicles, but only when the technology makes it a viable option. Remember the tesla over the road truck. The press made a big deal out of a few companies ordering them. Where are thay?? NON EXISTANT! Because of the limitations of the technology! The only reason the big auto makers are making electric pickups is because of government mandates. I have worked in the electronics industry and a fortune 500 company for 40 years. I have seen the results of trying to push a technology before it's ready. Again I will say if it was a viable option it wouldn't need subsidy! It is a niche market and wil be for the foreseeable future, yes many technologies are promising but that can be a long time to maturity.

 

[buckeye68]

I stopped and filled up my car this morning. 3 cars were plugged in. The same 3 cars were there plugged in when I left.
I can go 430 miles on one tank of gas. I’ll keep my gas car.

 

[DocCarbon]

I believe I read where the USPS just ordered a fleet of gasoline vehicles.... If you've been reading this thread you should know that EV's don't save anything in the long run. The USPS may have better accountants than you think. Or. might have discovered the local grid couldn't handle the extra load.

FYI : USPS purchases fuel from station vendors on point of location ,at the going rate just like You and I do .

Can't deny the power grid can't handle extra loads ,as that's factual . Volts and AMPS is a relationship .
EV'S take AMPS as do ALL batteries . Figure and average housing track of say 250 homes ,less than 30 % would be able to have #1 220V charger ,let alone #2-3 chargers as would be required in many households .

A fisrt year electrical engineering student would know ,hooking everyone up is IMPOSSIBLE ,NO matter the monies you waste or steal IT WON'T pencil !.

 

[DocCarbon]

FYI : Wife spoke to her sister this AM and GUESS WHO GOT THEIR ELECTRIC BILL !.
Yep and apparently it's NOT $8-9 a charge ,seems it's More $$$'s on their normal electric bill than she realized . Wouldn't tell Me or My Wife what the difference was but she complained about it to her sister . Lol so hard I'm choking .

 

[Dusty Stevens]

FYI : Wife spoke to her sister this AM and GUESS WHO GOT THEIR ELECTRIC BILL !.
Yep and apparently it's NOT $8-9 a charge ,seems it's More $$$'s on their normal electric bill than she realized . Wouldn't tell Me or My Wife what the difference was but she complained about it to her sister . Lol so hard I'm choking .

It was $385 on my volt. Nobody wants to listen though

 

[CarlGeorge]

It was $385 on my volt. Nobody wants to listen though

I'll listen. I'd like to hear more.

$385 incremental electric costs? How many miles were you driving? How much does electricity cost where you live?

 

[dellet]

I like the idea of electric cars. Just don't like the current idea of how to make batteries.

More than 100 years ago, my Great Grandparents allowed a start up oil company to drill and place a well on family land. Well is still there and been producing all this time. Distant family still lives on the same land to this day.

One of the proposed Lithium mines in Nevada will encompass 5000 acres, use around 3000 gallons of water a minute and have projected life of about 40 years. I think the estimated time that the land would remain contaminated and un-usable is 300 years.

No word on the damage that might occur due to the change in the water table.

Save the planet, make it a dust bowl!

 

[D Coots]

I like the idea of electric cars. Just don't like the current idea of how to make batteries.

More than 100 years ago, my Great Grandparents allowed a start up oil company to drill and place a well on family land. Well is still there and been producing all this time. Distant family still lives on the same land to this day.

One of the proposed Lithium mines in Nevada will encompass 5000 acres, use around 3000 gallons of water a minute and have projected life of about 40 years. I think the estimated time that the land would remain contaminated and un-usable is 300 years.

No word on the damage that might occur due to the change in the water table.

Save the planet, make it a dust bowl!

Sush......don't speak those words......
Oil bad.

 

[lawman29]

Like any "new" technology there will be growing pains... I'm sure the same concerns and sarcasm were abundant when Henry Ford came out with the Model A... Lot easier to buy a bale of hay and bucket of oats than a gallon of gas back in 1903 but somehow it worked itself out.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Growing pains all right. Tell that to families that lose their jobs related to fossil fuels!

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I'll listen. I'd like to hear more.

$385 incremental electric costs? How many miles were you driving? How much does electricity cost where you live?

Its some of the cheapest in the country- i work for the utility. Its $.11-12/kwhr. It was a company car so it wasnt driven too hard but was plugged in every day in my garage. That only lasted 1mo- my company paid for gas but didnt pay my electric bill. Never plugged it in again and that lasted for 80,000mi. I will say out of all the electric cars out there the volt was by far my favorite. It looked good and ran off gas getting 70mpg. A plug in hybrid is the only way to go in my opinion. I can drive from coast to coast and never stop at a charger, or i can stop at chargers and never get gas- whatever you want to do. Hate to see they quit making it. Every other option is way too ugly or like a tesla is electric only.