Does anyone shoot ELR with a 284?
- Thread starter Dud
- Start date
I measured my bolt more and measuring from the bolt face to the flats the bolt handle seats on, the Glades bolt sleeve is about 0.011" shorter.
I think I found that 0.011" difference in space for the bolt barrel.
Another thing I measured was from the extractor to the little cocking shelf cut and the Glades was about 0.004" shorter in this measurement.
Now if the bolt head retaining pin had been drilled 0.011" closer to the bolt, that would match the bolt baffle clearance but make the cocking shelf 0.007" taller.
I have to test this out in the action to see how it works but if there are issues with one bolt sleeve and not another, I'll at least have a fair idea of the differences.
I think I found that 0.011" difference in space for the bolt barrel.
Another thing I measured was from the extractor to the little cocking shelf cut and the Glades was about 0.004" shorter in this measurement.
Now if the bolt head retaining pin had been drilled 0.011" closer to the bolt, that would match the bolt baffle clearance but make the cocking shelf 0.007" taller.
I have to test this out in the action to see how it works but if there are issues with one bolt sleeve and not another, I'll at least have a fair idea of the differences.
After playing with my bolt, I installed it in my Axis with both parts from Glades Armory.
It would go in and the bolt handle would begin to drop but after about 10-15° it would stop, nowhere near full battery.
Testing the Glades parts individually, each works with an otherwise Savage bolt, just not together.
I did one more test with them together, but this time not tightening the bolt handle retaining screw. This allowed it to drop in to battery, then I tightened the retaining screw by hand and removed the bolt. After de-cocking the firing pin, I used the bolt handle as a reference to see how much I could tighten the retaining screw. It rotated about 170-180° before it got tight so the tolerance stack is about 1/2 a thread pitch off.
I have sent an email to Glades with the issues I have observed. I think a workstop moved by 0.011" which is screwing up the bolt sleeve machining.
The bolt handle might be a bit off too but their handle is the only game in town so I hope they can make a new bolt sleeve that actually works with their bolt handle and fixes the bolt head buffer issue.
I know some people complain about Glades customer service. I hope I don't have to. I asked them a question before ordering but got no reply. I hope they actually reply to my bolt sleeve problem email.
It would go in and the bolt handle would begin to drop but after about 10-15° it would stop, nowhere near full battery.
Testing the Glades parts individually, each works with an otherwise Savage bolt, just not together.
I did one more test with them together, but this time not tightening the bolt handle retaining screw. This allowed it to drop in to battery, then I tightened the retaining screw by hand and removed the bolt. After de-cocking the firing pin, I used the bolt handle as a reference to see how much I could tighten the retaining screw. It rotated about 170-180° before it got tight so the tolerance stack is about 1/2 a thread pitch off.
I have sent an email to Glades with the issues I have observed. I think a workstop moved by 0.011" which is screwing up the bolt sleeve machining.
The bolt handle might be a bit off too but their handle is the only game in town so I hope they can make a new bolt sleeve that actually works with their bolt handle and fixes the bolt head buffer issue.
I know some people complain about Glades customer service. I hope I don't have to. I asked them a question before ordering but got no reply. I hope they actually reply to my bolt sleeve problem email.
I installed the action in my chassis too.
That Savage recoil lug is ugly, obviously stamped and nowhere near flat. I'm glad I'm getting rid of it but I need it for now since I haven't faced the action yet.
A couple more issues with the Glades bolt handle (not it's fault) in my chassis. With the bolt closed and the stock folded, they hit. I think I'm going to have to get a less tactical bolt knob, Loktite it on and then file a flat for clearance. With the stock open and a MPA vertical grip, the trigger finger bump combined with the bolt knob kind of crowd the trigger finger. Hopefully an MDT adjustable vertical grip will give me a little more room and a perfect relationship between my trigger finger and the trigger.
It's pretty blinged out for an Axis. I really like the way the fluted and black nitride coated bolt sleeve looks in the action. The bolt handle classes it up with cleaner lines too. I was watching a YouTube video from "The Social Regressive" and he complained that the Savage Axis is an ugly rifle. I'll agree that the Savage bolt sleeve is pretty tacky looking and the stock bolt handle looks cheap but I like the lines of the receiver. The barrel nut isn't the greatest look but I don't mind it at all. The factory stock doesn't look horrible but it's gone too.
The chassis looks ok but once I bolt on a longer forend it's going to get a bit ugly.
The ICD stock looks very nice, I just have to play with the adjustments to get the right fit and make it fold as flat and compact as possible.
My Leupold Backcountry rail looks like it is going to work well but I think I'm going to shim it and bed it to maximize the drop I can dial in my scope.
It's simple but I'm going to try to shoot it 2,000 yards and look good doing it (except the forearm).
Eventually I'll have a complete OEM stock with crummy recoil lug, 30-06 magazine, action screws, two piece scope mounts and a used 30-06 barrel available for sale or trade cheap. PM me if you have a need for that but I would like to keep it a package deal instead of split it up.
That Savage recoil lug is ugly, obviously stamped and nowhere near flat. I'm glad I'm getting rid of it but I need it for now since I haven't faced the action yet.
A couple more issues with the Glades bolt handle (not it's fault) in my chassis. With the bolt closed and the stock folded, they hit. I think I'm going to have to get a less tactical bolt knob, Loktite it on and then file a flat for clearance. With the stock open and a MPA vertical grip, the trigger finger bump combined with the bolt knob kind of crowd the trigger finger. Hopefully an MDT adjustable vertical grip will give me a little more room and a perfect relationship between my trigger finger and the trigger.
It's pretty blinged out for an Axis. I really like the way the fluted and black nitride coated bolt sleeve looks in the action. The bolt handle classes it up with cleaner lines too. I was watching a YouTube video from "The Social Regressive" and he complained that the Savage Axis is an ugly rifle. I'll agree that the Savage bolt sleeve is pretty tacky looking and the stock bolt handle looks cheap but I like the lines of the receiver. The barrel nut isn't the greatest look but I don't mind it at all. The factory stock doesn't look horrible but it's gone too.
The chassis looks ok but once I bolt on a longer forend it's going to get a bit ugly.
The ICD stock looks very nice, I just have to play with the adjustments to get the right fit and make it fold as flat and compact as possible.
My Leupold Backcountry rail looks like it is going to work well but I think I'm going to shim it and bed it to maximize the drop I can dial in my scope.
It's simple but I'm going to try to shoot it 2,000 yards and look good doing it (except the forearm).
Eventually I'll have a complete OEM stock with crummy recoil lug, 30-06 magazine, action screws, two piece scope mounts and a used 30-06 barrel available for sale or trade cheap. PM me if you have a need for that but I would like to keep it a package deal instead of split it up.
280 or 280AI would probably be easier to find ammo but with the magazine the MDT LSS magazine uses, I think the shorter case is going to make loading the long 184 grain Berger's easier. Since I'm going to hand load, I decided to go for the 284 case with the shorter powder column and necked up Lapua brass.
It's a little inconvenient but makes sense to me.
I have gotten several emails from Glades.
They have reproduced the problem. They think it is mostly a batch of bolt handles bored a bit too deep so they are going to cut the receiver facing side down a bit to correct that.
I still think the bolt sleeve is contributing to it and have communicated what the problem is.
I think they are going to send me a cut down handle and I have asked them to send a sleeve as well just in case I got one that just slipped through the cracks.
I will have to return what I don't use.
It's a little inconvenient but makes sense to me.
I have gotten several emails from Glades.
They have reproduced the problem. They think it is mostly a batch of bolt handles bored a bit too deep so they are going to cut the receiver facing side down a bit to correct that.
I still think the bolt sleeve is contributing to it and have communicated what the problem is.
I think they are going to send me a cut down handle and I have asked them to send a sleeve as well just in case I got one that just slipped through the cracks.
I will have to return what I don't use.
I need to take a look at my Accu-trigger. It's giving me a 3lb pull. I have another that breaks at 20 oz so that's a way off.
Looking at the bolt lift, it's not awful but it's not close to the custom actions I've tried.
It seems like the firing pin is essentially flush with the retaining screw before firing but when the bolt is lifted, the firing pin comes out another 1/8-3/16" which seems unnecessary.
I have to look at it carefully to see if I can reduce that without causing any issues.
I also notice when it is getting cocked the firing pin is moving toward the side of the bolt handle retaining screw hole. I'm not sure if it is possible to reduce that side load but I want to know what causes it.
I have a bolt lift kit (thrust bearing) also. I'm going to try to see what else I can do to improve lift before I install that.
I just have to better understand the mechanics of my bolt action, see where I can improve it and time it.
Looking at the bolt lift, it's not awful but it's not close to the custom actions I've tried.
It seems like the firing pin is essentially flush with the retaining screw before firing but when the bolt is lifted, the firing pin comes out another 1/8-3/16" which seems unnecessary.
I have to look at it carefully to see if I can reduce that without causing any issues.
I also notice when it is getting cocked the firing pin is moving toward the side of the bolt handle retaining screw hole. I'm not sure if it is possible to reduce that side load but I want to know what causes it.
I have a bolt lift kit (thrust bearing) also. I'm going to try to see what else I can do to improve lift before I install that.
I just have to better understand the mechanics of my bolt action, see where I can improve it and time it.
I have a 284imp and shoot a 180 Berger Hybrid at 2850 fps. I have plates on the mountain above the range at 1509 yards and can ring them without a problem. Doesn't have much energy at that range but don't have the recoil of my edge either.
Very nice.
If I can get to a mile I will be pleased. I think I might debut my rifle at the November URSA event if it's ready and I have developed a good load at 100 yards in time. Their match qualifier is 2,000+ yards which they say I should be able to hit, then they move up to 2,500+ yards and 3,000+ if that's not enough to determine a winner.
I think I'll run out of scope adjustment and reticle before I can get to 2,500 but if I can hit at 2,000 yards well enough to qualify (I think it's 3 of 10), I'll be very happy.
If I can get to a mile I will be pleased. I think I might debut my rifle at the November URSA event if it's ready and I have developed a good load at 100 yards in time. Their match qualifier is 2,000+ yards which they say I should be able to hit, then they move up to 2,500+ yards and 3,000+ if that's not enough to determine a winner.
I think I'll run out of scope adjustment and reticle before I can get to 2,500 but if I can hit at 2,000 yards well enough to qualify (I think it's 3 of 10), I'll be very happy.
I'm hoping to get a scope that doesn't have a big illumination knob hanging off of the parallax knob and folding the stock to the right so it kind of blends in with the thickness of the windage knob and bolt knob instead of adding to them.
The issue with that is I have to make my stock fold over the bolt knob without hitting.
Of course my Glades bolt handle hits the stock (by no fault of its own). To fix this, I have ordered a cheap Delrin fluted bolt knob that is about 1/2" shorter and since Delrin is homogenous and fairly soft, if that doesn't create enough clearance, I can file a flat on the knob without exposing shiny raw aluminum.
At 1/2" shorter, I'm going to have less leverage to overcome the bolt lift but still more than the original handle. Hopefully I'll be able to tweak the timing to reduce the lift force and more than negate any gain caused by less leverage.
The issue with that is I have to make my stock fold over the bolt knob without hitting.
Of course my Glades bolt handle hits the stock (by no fault of its own). To fix this, I have ordered a cheap Delrin fluted bolt knob that is about 1/2" shorter and since Delrin is homogenous and fairly soft, if that doesn't create enough clearance, I can file a flat on the knob without exposing shiny raw aluminum.
At 1/2" shorter, I'm going to have less leverage to overcome the bolt lift but still more than the original handle. Hopefully I'll be able to tweak the timing to reduce the lift force and more than negate any gain caused by less leverage.
Please post your results after you take the .284 out to that challenge. I'll be very interested in your opinion after the event. You have a lofty goal with the .284 but I applaud your drive and positive attitude in using that rifle for 2000 + yards. Like I said before, you'll do ok when mother nature is sleeping. Good luck. John.
Wind at 1000 is a piece of cake compared to double that range. You sound very eager as we all are in shooting those ELR distances for results. My suggestion would be to start at 1000 with your choice rifle and gradually move out after conquering the distance range. It's a process but one that will provide you with alot of data and a sound relationship with that rifle. 1000/1200/1500/1- mile/2000. That's the order I would proceed for the best results. Try all those distances in wind also. It will humble you very quickly.
I'm aiming for the November event because I'm not sure of the next time I will be able to put it in my schedule. Also, it's the only place I have heard of with greater than 1,000 yard shooting within driving range. If I want to try baby steps, I'll probably have to fly.
Unfortunately that schedule won't give me a chance to try 1,000 yards first.
It's either do it or put a big question mark on my schedule and not soon.
Also, the event coordinator is very encouraging and believes he can walk me on target.
I just want to show up with a gun that has potential and is as buttoned down as I can get it at 100 yards.
Unfortunately that schedule won't give me a chance to try 1,000 yards first.
It's either do it or put a big question mark on my schedule and not soon.
Also, the event coordinator is very encouraging and believes he can walk me on target.
I just want to show up with a gun that has potential and is as buttoned down as I can get it at 100 yards.
I will. I hope to post pics of my load development groups at 100 yards also.
I think I may have figured out my forearm. I found an extrusion that will give me a nice flat bottom 3" wide with some height to stiffen it. With a little bit of machining I think I can make it blend in to the chassis lines too. If I can find some FDE paint to match my chassis it might not even be ugly.
The only problem is it looks like the materials are about $40 which is kind of a rip-off considering the weight.
I think I may have figured out my forearm. I found an extrusion that will give me a nice flat bottom 3" wide with some height to stiffen it. With a little bit of machining I think I can make it blend in to the chassis lines too. If I can find some FDE paint to match my chassis it might not even be ugly.
The only problem is it looks like the materials are about $40 which is kind of a rip-off considering the weight.
No turning back now.
I won't have access to a lathe until next week but it makes sense to get my 30-06 barrel off my action.
I don't have an action wrench yet so I had no good way to try to loosen the barrel nut.
Then I thought of the way that a lot of stubborn factory barrels are removed, by cutting a relief in the barrel. Since it's an Axis and I'm going to face the receiver for a barrel lug any way, why not rough cut the face to create a relief?
I got some painters tape and an automotive hose clamp to use as a guide and a nice fresh Starret bimetal hacksaw blade, then I had at it.
It didn't take long, I was careful not to get in to the barrel threads and once the relief cut went from one side of the recoil lug notch around to the other, the barrel spun right off.
After a little clean up, the receiver is ready to get faced in a lathe with much less interrupted cut to take.
The barrel may have survived the process. It had the Savage barrel grit I have heard about. I have tried to clean it off but it seems to be under the nut. I can spin the nut a little but it gets bound up in a turn or two, nowhere near to coming off the barrel.
I am trying to give it a penetrating oil soak but I'm not sure if it will come off without damaging something.
I won't have access to a lathe until next week but it makes sense to get my 30-06 barrel off my action.
I don't have an action wrench yet so I had no good way to try to loosen the barrel nut.
Then I thought of the way that a lot of stubborn factory barrels are removed, by cutting a relief in the barrel. Since it's an Axis and I'm going to face the receiver for a barrel lug any way, why not rough cut the face to create a relief?
I got some painters tape and an automotive hose clamp to use as a guide and a nice fresh Starret bimetal hacksaw blade, then I had at it.
It didn't take long, I was careful not to get in to the barrel threads and once the relief cut went from one side of the recoil lug notch around to the other, the barrel spun right off.
After a little clean up, the receiver is ready to get faced in a lathe with much less interrupted cut to take.
The barrel may have survived the process. It had the Savage barrel grit I have heard about. I have tried to clean it off but it seems to be under the nut. I can spin the nut a little but it gets bound up in a turn or two, nowhere near to coming off the barrel.
I am trying to give it a penetrating oil soak but I'm not sure if it will come off without damaging something.
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