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Deer gun a 223?

The .223 thread on Rokslide has some pretty convincing evidence of .223 and its effectiveness on everything up to Brown Bear.

I have zero experience but there is more than enough there to know it’s not one off success but a reliable killer
 
Evlshnngns said:
Yes.

If idoits are going to take shots they shouldn't, I would prefer they hit it with a 100gr 243w as opposed to a 22lr.

Do you agree or disagree with that?
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Well now you are changing the game. A 22lr is not anything like a 223 w/heavy bullets when it comes to wound channels. There would be zero perceivable difference between a 243/100gr. and a 223 w/88 gr.
So yes both of those would be much better than a 22lr. Although we have shot large steers at the ranch with a 22lr for many decades, without having to track a single one! :D
 
Dgd6mm said:
This is almost like arguing over handgun cartridges for self defense.
It's obvious in capable hands and decent shot angles and placement, and I'll add distance, that a .223 is able to be used to harvest deer - elk.
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And that is the rub with the .223. There are just more limitations with the .223 for the average shooter. I've killed coyotes with my .17 HMR, so it is perfectly "capable". My .17 Hornet does it better and further, as does my .20 Practical after that and so on. None of them are on par with one another, nor are center fire cartridges. But one CAN get the job done with each of them. And that is where discussions like these will never end....
 
Michshooter said:
The .223 thread on Rokslide has some pretty convincing evidence of .223 and its effectiveness on everything up to Brown Bear.

I have zero experience but there is more than enough there to know it’s not one off
Click to expand...

Michshooter said:
It would seem "effectiveness" comes with a fairly loose definition of such. A .223 is a capable cartridge for many things. A lot of the YouTube and other such videos show ballistic gel penetration and velocity as their test medium and use that as a comparison. Not so much is emphasized on foot pounds of energy that can be required to provide deep penetration after hitting bone and such. Cartridge selection aside, simple math shows how disadvantaged lighter bullets are, when compared to heavier bullets moving at the same speed - in respect to energy. I realize folks aren't advocating shooting a brown bear with a .223 in the context it is better suited than a larger cartridge - but it would appear some folks think they are - and that their data supports their reasoning - which doesn't stack up in most real-world field applications.
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22 center fires are legal here in Arizona for deer. All seven of my kids tagged their first deer shooting 60 grain partitions out of a 220 swift and the results were electrifying. Personally I’ve never used a 223 for deer sized game but I’ve loaded for two guys who use 60 grain partitions in a 222 and a 223 with deadly results. Both guys have multiple children and both guys have those children shoot a lot before they are allowed on a hunt. Shot placement is key, low recoil helps with that.

Is the 223 the ideal deer cartridge? I don’t think too many people would rank it at that top of that list but it’s a great cartridge for a young person to shoot under supervision from someone who has the experience to help them practice and place the shot well. You’ll have to pick your shots but a good broadside shot with a partition, TSX, TTSX, SBT will yield a very dead deer.

A 223 flinging a 60 grain partition into the vitals is far more deadly than a 7-08 with a 140 grain bullet into the guts. It’s a touchy subject, most of the guys I know who have used 22CFs with the right bullets have had great success with it on deer and smaller game. Personally, I think it’s a great choice if you’re disciplined enough to know when not to pull the trigger.
 
Gman said:
A 223 flinging a 60 grain partition into the vitals is far more deadly than a 7-08 with a 140 grain bullet into the guts.

This right here says it all!
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So that begs the question as to whether a .223 in the guts is just as "good" as the 140 grain bullet in the guts. I doubt most people would want to compare cartridges by comparing good shots with bad ones. But if one does - what would be the outcome of equally bad shots? Which bullet would have done more damage on the way to the guts - and still possess the energy to continue on and inflict more damage? Good advice on taking the right shot and using those Barnes bullets!
 
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Aside from the "killin power" of various cartridges on deer, there is another consideration that should be considered. -- Most of us when standing on our hind legs and shooting at a target,(or deer) will shoot a 223 or similar much more accurately than an - 06 or similar. And that probably goes for shooting from a rest as well.

My first deer rifle was a .243, and before I shot any deer with it I had killed a bunch of chucks, jacks, coyotes, squeaks, etc. I could stand shooting off-hand at a hundred and keep most of my shots in a 4" bull. I killed about a dozen deer with it in the first five years or so, most of them dead on the spot. THEN--- I got a good deal on a 270, same model of rifle, and started using it for deer and elk. I immediately started botching things, made a mess of some pretty easy shots, and had to chase some bucks around to finish them. I just don't shoot that rifle as well, and I know that there is no good reason for it. jd
 
Peter Capstick shot or saw shot an African elephant with a 22LR, for years the record polar bear was shot with a 22 Hi-Power, Capstick killed a Cape buffalo with a spear (he had back-up), and for many years the record elk had been shot with a 30-40. Buffalo hunters shot thousands of elk with single shot BP rifles.

Can it be done? Yes. Can many hunters do it? NO! Do you need to have the patience to pick your shot? YES
Can many hunters show such judgement when it is the last day of season and it's a trophy buck? NO Is it irresponsible (and bravado) to show these things to young and relatively new hunters? YES (because they might think THEY can do it too!).

In 60 years of hunting, I have lost only one head of game and almost all of mine (except when I was guiding) were one shot kills except for a follow-up "mercy shot". That includes several trophy boars (4" tusks or better), several 4x4 mule deer, a 6x7 Rocky Mountain elk and an 7x8 Tule elk. When I guided, I told my hunters that if I heard a "whump" and it didn't drop, I was putting it down so that it didn't get away into the brush, where I would have to follow it :mad: . Many thanked me!
 
Gman said:
A 223 flinging a 60 grain partition into the vitals is far more deadly than a 7-08 with a 140 grain bullet into the guts.

This right here says it all!
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I think you mean "chest" not "vitals".........The guts ARE vitals also!

Merriam-Webster Dictionary: "
internal bodily organs (such as the heart, lungs, and brain) that are essential to life
especially : the vital organs of the abdomen (such as the liver and kidneys)"
 
jds holler said:
Aside from the "killin power" of various cartridges on deer, there is another consideration that should be considered. -- Most of us when standing on our hind legs and shooting at a target,(or deer) will shoot a 223 or similar much more accurately than an - 06 or similar. And that probably goes for shooting from a rest as well.

My first deer rifle was a .243, and before I shot any deer with it I had killed a bunch of chucks, jacks, coyotes, squeaks, etc. I could stand shooting off-hand at a hundred and keep most of my shots in a 4" bull. I killed about a dozen deer with it in the first five years or so, most of them dead on the spot. THEN--- I got a good deal on a 270, same model of rifle, and started using it for deer and elk. I immediately started botching things, made a mess of some pretty easy shots, and had to chase some bucks around to finish them. I just don't shoot that rifle as well, and I know that there is no good reason for it. jd
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Needed more practice before taking it in the field!

Years ago, I learned that you should not shoot further than you could keep all shots in a dinner plate under field conditions. Every fall (pre-season), I shot ONE box at 100 yards (1.5"groups 2.75"high at 100 yards with my 300 mag) from a rest, then THREE boxes standing, kneeling and sitting. THEN take two boxes of PREMIUM (Nosler 180 gr Partition) with me in the field (packed separately in case one box gets lost). Also, a back-up rifle if I went out of state. On a Utah elk hunt and a Wyoming antelope hunt, I took my trusty 300 mag and a 25-06 Ruger #1 Varmint (10 sot 1" groups with 120 gr Nosler handloads). Got my elk (6x7) on opening morning and my buddy knocked over the Ruger. Missed a coyote at 200 yards so I figured he jarred the sights. No luck on antelope! On that same hunt, my buddy knocked loose the bolt on his Browning Safari 375 H & H and had a bull bugle10 yards behind them!! Caa Caa happens.
 
Jonnyofalltrades said:
Funny, I've used that single-shot,(with various barrels) for 24 years on more big game than I can count on all my fingers and toes. I have yet to feel like I was undergunned. You speak as though it's a muzzleloader. :p
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African hunters always use back-up when hunting with double rifles!
 
It's more about what bullet you are using than what cartridge is used. A 77 sierra tmk will make a mess of the internal organs of a whitetail. A bigger caliber bullet that doesn't expand as quick will make a smaller wound channel and will not kill as quick.
 
Shoot your deer with a 69 or 77 smk/tmk or a 68 eld and hit it in the vitals and it’ll put it down quick.

Lots of old timers on here thinking you have to have a 30-06 with 150 soft points to kill a deer.
 
I've shot quite a few deer and hogs with 14 different calibers. using a 223, being under gunned will eventually get you. Target bullets, for me never killed as quickly as hunting bullets. yes, I have used the 69 gr Seirra match king because it was extremely accurate. I went from that to a 55gr ballistic tip to a 64 gr winchester to a 45 gr barnes to 60 gr partition... Now I use a bigger gun.
In open spaces where you can see animal run for a distance, almost anything will work.
It hurts when you lose one and he's lying dead 25 yards away in the thick.
Thick is where you are crawling or can't stand up straight.
 
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