Just a 223 rant...

[BoilerUP]

Shot placement trumps shot displacement.

 

[fredo]

I don't know what the law says up there these days, I haven't hunted Pa. since about 1998 or so. When I used to live there {79-81} the thing I do remember was 6mm {243} minimum for deer. There were a lot of very nice people up that way, just about everyone used a 760 with those ridiculous "see thru" scope mounts. No one could afford an AR-15...the only 223's I remember anyone ever having was the Mini-14. I remember going to Grice's when they were on "railroad street" in Clearfield. There wasn't hardly enough room to move around..they had a Colt CAR-15 that everyone was drooling over for $435.00.
Back then no one would have dreamed of shooting a deer with a 223...they didn't much believe in shooting does either.

Considering the fact that semi-autos have been illegal for hunting deer in PA, since...forever, kinda makes sense that deer hunters didn't buy many AR-15s...

And, when ya consider how many deer hunters did drives back in those days (and still do), the ol' "turdy-oh-six" was always welcomed insurance when shooting at the south end of a north bound whitetail. The higher retained energy of the "oh-six" allowed you to shoot the deer's leg clean off, much preferable & more humane to it draggin' on behind...

 

[msinc]

Considering the fact that semi-autos have been illegal for hunting deer in PA, since...forever, kinda makes sense that deer hunters didn't buy many AR-15s...

No, I wasn't trying to imply anyone up there even wanted to hunt deer back then with an AR let alone being legal to use...my point was just that back in those days the economy was pretty bad and $435 was a lot of money for a gun. No one had AR's because no one could afford it, now just about everyone has at least one. Good ole days???? We're living them now!!!!
Just like those "see thru" scope rings...we laugh at them now, but honestly, the average scope that most people used was no where near as good as they are today...you didn't know if you would look thru it and see nothing but fog and would have to resort to the iron sights. Just pointing out the way things have changed, that's all...like this thread. Go back 40 years and ask some of the guys that were experienced older hunters if they would use a 222 {a caliber they could relate to back in the day} to hunt deer...forget the right or wrong in it, just imagine how you would get looked at for asking!!! Now, today we have a faction that really believes in the use of a 223 for deer.

 

[jakelly]

For some reason I get the feeling that there is a small horde of members here who have experienced major deer hunting failures with varmint chamberings and are remaining silent. But there's no way to prove it.

I grew up in SW PA around avid to rabid hunters and part to full time poachers. I've seen nearly every kind of lethal failure and too many failures wide of lethal to count. I haven't seen too many disciplined hunters and I've too often watched the minority abandon theirs in the "moment". To compound the problem, the Indian and the arrow are not the only factors when living animals are involved. You can kill deer with a lot less than a 223, and I've met more than one rancher in MT that filled their elk tag every year with slow twist fast 22s. I don't do it, I have personally seen it go badly on a disproportionately high percentage of attempts, and I think a guy could probably do it his whole life without failure.

 

[SheepDog]

When I was growing up there were two old guys that used the 222 for dear hunting. It was not the least popular cartridge in the field. That was back when the most popular hunting cartridge was the 30-30 and nobody in their "right mind" would use a magnum to hunt deer. Either the deer have gotten stronger or the hunters have gotten weaker.

 

[LHSmith]

Maybe some of the Pennsy old timers can chime in but I think years ago, .243 was the minimum caliber for deer but not now. Also, .36 for muzzle loaded firearms. Anyone remember?

IIRC, back in '66 the digest read centerfire only and min. .22 caliber. Before that I have no clue.

 

[wholman]

Why would you shoot a deer in the shoulder to start with.

 

[Berger.Fan222]

Why would you shoot a deer in the shoulder to start with.

With an appropriate bullet and cartridge for shoulder shots, it is simply the best chance at a dead right there with margin for error if you are a couple inches off.

I loved shoulder shots with Nosler Ballistic Tips in 30-06 and .308. Tons of deer. Not much tracking.

With a Barnes X bullet, I'd be confident aiming for the shoulder out to 100 yards with a .223.

 

[LHSmith]

Maybe some of the Pennsy old timers can chime in but I think years ago, .243 was the minimum caliber for deer but not now. Also, .36 for muzzle loaded firearms. Anyone remember?

Was able to locate a 1970 game law digest as supplied with the license- it states under legal for big game "Ammunition-Single projectile (.22 and .25 caliber Rimfire prohibited) expanding type only".

 

[hogpatrol]

Was able to locate a 1970 game law digest as supplied with the license- it states under legal for big game "Ammunition-Single projectile (.22 and .25 caliber Rimfire prohibited) expanding type only".

Found an '89 and it shows no restrictions on caliber for centerfire or muzzleloader and no rimfires for deer.

 

[wholman]

I thought you hunted to eat what you shot, not to destroy the meat.
Yes I might have to trail a little but good blood trail.
double lung shot works well.

 

[SheepDog]

I don't like shoulder shots for my deer but it is the second best way to anchor the animal. The best way is to place your bullet in the head or neck using an appropriately light constructed bullet. 85 to 87 grain bullet in the 6mm TCU works just as well as a 130 hp from a 3006. You typically take out both major arteries, the windpipe and the spine. That is the best example of DRT. Ear shots are also good.

 

[people]

I thought you hunted to eat what you shot, not to destroy the meat.
Yes I might have to trail a little but good blood trail.
double lung shot works well.

Not me. I hunt to control the population. My dog gets all my venison. So really two reasons.

If I can get a head shot perfect but if not then a shot to make it dead where it stands. I am so tired of hearing about ethics and hunting. My goal is to have it drt. If I wanted to make them suffer I would use a bow. Please don't take this as an attack on you it is just a statement I am making.