Cartridge for deer in the forest.

[Chestnut]

From May 7, 2013?!?

Hey, i read the entire post and enjoyed it. So i guess thanks for the zombie resurrection?

My cartridge of choice is a 450 grain expandable flying around 250 fps from a string and stick. I'm sick of tripping over inexperienced people on public land during firearm season.

 

[White Eagle]

Your 358 Win is a great choice
no need for a 223 keep that for the varmints

 

[Downeast]

I have a friend who shoots deer exclusively with a 5.56 AR. He shoots them in the head from a blind at 30 yards or less over a corn pile. Hunting has nothing to do with it. It is shooting. I do the same thing from a box blind out to several hundred yards with a myriad of rifles, but not a 5.56/.223. I have shot 4-6 deer a season for many years but I haven't "hunted" them in many years either. I "hunt" ducks and "shoot" deer. Personally, I do not believe that any .22 caliber is sufficient to kill deer except under very controlled conditions, like I mentioned above.

 

[Hipshoot]

I don't believe that SNIPEING over a corn pile at 30 yds. is considered hunting! At least not to me,

Hip

 

[SD guy]

My goodness, there are a lot of good to great options for the task at hand. 223 falls in to a marginal good option in the right hands the 223 could be very good. boils down to bullet selection & shot placement. Going back the 30-30 has been a stand out.
in the long list of good options the following come to mind for me.

30-30
257 Roberts
243 Win
7mm-08
308 Win
300 BLK
6.5 Grendel
6mm ARC
22 ARC
300 BLK
50 cal muzzle loader
338 ARC
And the list goes on.

 

[choprzrul]

In a general sense, I’d think that reducing time of flight would minimize errors associated with running shots.

My 20” 6.5CM shooting 85gr Hammers at 3420 fps comes to mind…

 

[Fast14riot]

Funny, I'm finishing up a 6br deer gun specifically for hunting PNW blacktail in dense forrest. Aside from bullet weights I don't think it is terribly more efficient at killing a 140lb deer than a 223. This gun is designed for 200y and less, but bullet construction and velocity is my priority.

Even a necro-post can still be a good read.

 

[ISS]

The 223 was developed as a cartridge to wound enemy personnel as opposed to killing them with one shot like the 30 calibers. It would (the US Military thought) take one of his buddies out of the fire fight to tend to his wounds. That assumption is (IMHO) only valid fighting civilized foes. Asians and Middle Easterners place no value on human life as Westerners do.
Based on three tours of duty in RVN; MAC-V SOG and Army Rangers that is my professional opinion.
I would think you will wound and not recover three or four deer for every one you harvest, DRT. It's a stunt.
About 1900 or so, the Brits thought it great sport to hunt Lions from horseback with 303's. Chase them down, jump off the horse and shoot them at close range. There is a large cemetery outside of Nairobi full of young Subalterns (graves) to attest to that light as possible, minimum energy/effectiveness theory.
The Zebra in my avatar was harvested in RSA in 2010 with a 180gr Partition in a 300 WM. It took a second shot to kill him. First shot shredded the Heart and one lung, from about 100 yards, the second about 25 yards.

If you come to hunt Idaho, the 22's are illegal.

Nuff said,

ISS

 

[Fire Dog]

.338 Federal is my "Go To" heavy brush gun for deer & pigs... 200gr Hornady
Nothing worse that spending the rest of the day from the dawn shot tracking a blood trail through heavy going forest and brush...
.308Win for open country deer with 168gr Berger's
Minimum caliber for deer is 7mm in my state aside from Hog & Roe deer which can be taken with a 6mm.

 

[SD guy]

I have had good success hunting bucks in the VT forests.

This was hard hunting. The hunter success rate was less than 10%. The requirement was that a legal deer have at least one 3" spike.

I would take any safe shot I could get at a deer. My choice of rifle was and is the 99 Savage in .358 Winchester. All loads were handloads with the 200 Winchester Silvertip and when that was discontinued the Speer 180 gr.

I practiced at running deer shoots and could hit running deer when necessary.

I would not use a 223 for this hunting? It's just not powerful enough. i would have to pass up some shots.

Would you use a 223 for such hunting?

I bring this up because in another forum someone said the 223 was good for deer and that anyone saying it was not was commenting on their own marksmanship!

Some shot opportunities probably should simply be passed on no matter what cartridge or bullet you are shooting. Running shot in a thick forest sounds like a recipe for a wounded deer from my perspective. Whether the cartridge is a 35 caliber or 243 caliber is less of a factor than, if you have a clear shot at the vitals.

Some times the best most ethical choice may be to pass the shot & strive for a better shot opportunity.

My primary concern with using the 223 for deer is many will use the wrong bullet for the task at hand. I feel that there are a handful of good hunting bullet options available for the 223 & a pile of less than optimum bullet construction choices to pick from. Hornady only list the CX bullet as a recommended projectile for deer hunting in the 223 line up. Now you look at all of the other loads to choose from & you can bet some have had ok success with other bullet selection besides the recommended CX offering.

What stands out with the CX offering? Controlled expansion while retaining nearly all of the original weight of the projectile. Keep your shot distances appropriate & monolithic projectiles tend to shine with both expansion & retained weight. So while I do feel the 223 can be up to the task. There are a lot of other chambering that offer better & more plentiful selection of options for the task at hand.

 

[ISS]

IIRC, it was Craig Boddington who told me at SHOT Show maybe 20 years ago: to paraphrase, do not choose a round based on the idea that it will work if everything goes perfectly, but rather the one that will do the job if everything goes wrong.
Example: my avatar shows me and a dead Zebra. 180gr partition at about 2900fps in a 300 WM. 100 yards in Mopane Scrub and small trees. You look just behind the shoulder low, there is a red splotch. That first shot took out a heart valve and one lung. Dropped him right there. By time I worked the bolt and got him back in the sights he was thrashing around. Second shot shredded the heart. Dead on impact. A big stallion will weigh around 800 pounds.
As my PH said, "kill everything with the first shot, then kill it again...".

I shoot Rockchucks with a 223, out to maybe 300 yards. I want to see backflips with the first shot, and parts coming off.

 

[joshb]

My goodness, there are a lot of good to great options for the task at hand. 223 falls in to a marginal good option in the right hands the 223 could be very good. boils down to bullet selection & shot placement. Going back the 30-30 has been a stand out.
in the long list of good options the following come to mind for me.

30-30
257 Roberts
243 Win
7mm-08
308 Win
300 BLK
6.5 Grendel
6mm ARC
22 ARC
300 BLK
50 cal muzzle loader
338 ARC
And the list goes on.

You forgot one of the best “woods shooting” cartridges ever. The old 35 Remington. Best shot out of an old gun, too.

 

[dvraa]

I've shot dozens of deer with my 1895 in 45/70. Inside 100 yards it's just about unbeatable with the right loads. I use a 300 grn jhp and heavy charge of H-4198, never needed a follow up shot.

 

[SD guy]

You forgot one of the best “woods shooting” cartridges ever. The old 35 Remington. Best shot out of an old gun, too.
View attachment 1640260

Yes I have no doubt the 35 Rem is & has been very effective along with a good number of other cartridges I failed to single out. To tell the truth, I have no experience with the 35 Rem. Still I have no desire to take away anything from the fine cartridge.

Looks like a sweet utility firearm up to the task.

 

[Big Mc]

I have had good success hunting bucks in the VT forests.

This was hard hunting. The hunter success rate was less than 10%. The requirement was that a legal deer have at least one 3" spike.

I would take any safe shot I could get at a deer. My choice of rifle was and is the 99 Savage in .358 Winchester. All loads were handloads with the 200 Winchester Silvertip and when that was discontinued the Speer 180 gr.

I practiced at running deer shoots and could hit running deer when necessary.

I would not use a 223 for this hunting? It's just not powerful enough. i would have to pass up some shots.

Would you use a 223 for such hunting?

I bring this up because in another forum someone said the 223 was good for deer and that anyone saying it was not was commenting on their own marksmanship!

In the woods it is hard to beat the 30-39 Win.

 

[SD guy]

In the woods it is hard to beat the 30-39 Win.

Guessing a miss stroke of the keyboard. 30-30 Win may be hard to beat. Yet I expect the 7.62 x 39 with the right bullet would not disappoint either.

 

[varmintshooter]

Some THINK a 223 wouldn't work but some of us KNOW a 223 will work because we have used one with good results. As I recall the military uses FMJ bullets , not hunting type bullets.