Just a 223 rant...
- Thread starter Sniper338
- Start date
I managed the hunting on a large farm for a decade. The hunters with centerfire rifles were much more skilled and had much lower wounding rates than the archers and muzzleloaders. Killed hundreds of deer myself with lots of methods.
Compared with archery, muzzleloading, or handgun hunting, I'll take an accurate .223 with a good bullet any day of the week for bringing home venison.
Compared with archery, muzzleloading, or handgun hunting, I'll take an accurate .223 with a good bullet any day of the week for bringing home venison.
All methods require practice. Bow hunting requires a great deal of stalking skill to get within bow range. I'll kill a deer just as dead with one of my bows, along with a nice blood trail, as I will with a rifle. Practice, practice, practice.
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jds holler
Gold $$ Contributor
We used to have an annual Memorial Day camp-out with informal shooting contests on the last day. Rifle contest consisted of three shots, standing, off-hand at 100 yards. Most folks use the same rifle they shoot for deer and elk season. We use the same target as for pistol, 25 yd slow fire, since the bull is big enough for open sights and poor vision.
We typically have 20 to 30 shooters, and MOST of them can't keep three shots on the paper, and it's not uncommon to score targets with ZIP, ZILCH, NADDA.
Most of these folks aren't as avid shooters as most of us here on the forum, but they are for the most part representative of the average hunter who buys a tag and goes hunting.
My opinion is that anyone hunting big game should be able to put three shots in the black on that particular target at whatever range they are shooting, with whatever weapon they are using, with whatever method they are shooting from. If you need a rest to do it at 50 yards, don't think you can do it at 200 with no rest.
jd
We typically have 20 to 30 shooters, and MOST of them can't keep three shots on the paper, and it's not uncommon to score targets with ZIP, ZILCH, NADDA.
Most of these folks aren't as avid shooters as most of us here on the forum, but they are for the most part representative of the average hunter who buys a tag and goes hunting. My opinion is that anyone hunting big game should be able to put three shots in the black on that particular target at whatever range they are shooting, with whatever weapon they are using, with whatever method they are shooting from. If you need a rest to do it at 50 yards, don't think you can do it at 200 with no rest.
jd
Yep, one thing I would add {getting off track here} is that one of the most important things regarding bowhunting, from my experience, is knowing how to positively sharpen to a razors edge the broadhead. I have tried many broadheads and I have found NONE that are sharp enough right out of the pack. A broadhead that has been sharpened properly will kill an animal very quickly. I have seen many deer get away and some even live with what appeared to be a really good hit in the "kill" zone. The difference??? Broadheads used right out of the pack.
Maybe not so "dumb"...think about it, this would cause a lot of hunters that are maybe not as serious about it as some others to stay home. If they are not serious enough to do it right then they need to stay home.
I have seen a lot of "hunters" that go to deer camp more for the free time to drink than anything else. They usually manage to stagger out into the woods at some point and wound a deer {or two}. I believe many of the guys that don't shoot straight or use the wrong gun may be in this category.
This year in Virginia the bear hunters lobbied and got an increase in the bear tag fee. A lot of bear were being shot incidental to deer hunting just because they "walked by" some deer hunter that really deep down wasn't after a bear. It will be interesting to see the bear population climb as those type hunters now don't kill them and the money it generates put towards the bear program.
"Stupid, stupid, stupid" is not having enough respect for the animal you are hunting to at least bother to try and make a clean, humane kill.
jds holler
Gold $$ Contributor
I have noticed that Rich guys are better at making and saving money. I haven't noticed that they are better shooters .. jd
timeout
Silver $$ Contributor
Picture this, hunted all your life. Retired, can't get more than one percent interest on your savings. Price of everything you buy goes up and up and up. You have to choose between medications and groceries. You worked all your life to pay for a house and now the property taxes are more than your house payment was to buy the house. Then ignorant people come along and want to price you out of the woods. Are you a liberal who is out of touch with working class people, or just want the woods to yourself?
hogpatrol
Gold $$ Contributor
A few years ago I was in an African camp with two Hungarians that were hunting the high dollar animals. Blasers, Swarovskis, and Nightforce equipment. A nice kudu presented itself to one of them and shots were taken at 150, 100 and 75 meters. That kudu is still on the hoof.
As much as slob hunters and game thieves with licenses incense me, pricing the casual hunter out of hunting is a sure loser. Hunting is under assault from so many factions and license sales are falling nationwide. Look at Britain and fox hunting. The anti hunting faction forced the outlawing of a sport that had enormous financial importance, history and solid support from very well heeled participants. The anti hunting sentiment is devoid of logic and channels emotional outrage to lump all hunting in to the category of baby seal clubbing.
To hell and gone from a liberal...not much use for any of them. Definitely out of touch with the working class...I have been retired for 3 years, since I was 52. Don't "want" the woods all to myself, I already have that, but, I worked and paid for it. I own several hundred acres in two states.
timeout
Silver $$ Contributor
Good on you. I own 200 acres in one state. Difference is, I still know my roots and respect those less fortunate than myself.
Send me your address you poor pitiful thing...I will same day air you a milk bottle. You can drink it when you finish bawling and maybe get some sleep. You might feel better about yourself when you wake up, but I doubt it. Either way, it's ours to get over, or not.
timeout
Silver $$ Contributor
You completely missed the point. My point all along is that raising license fees is BS. I give a darn how many acres in how many States you own. I have what I want and am in no way envious of your acquired wealth. Plain and simple, you come off as an arrogant, rich snob. The only one crying and whining is you. You are such an ethical, perfect hunter, wanting to price those less fortunate than you out of the woods.
As usual, the .223 for big game supporters rationalize that it's most likely the drivers (nut behind the trigger) fault. IMHO it is marginal in the wide spectrum of suitable cartridges for the job. In the 50 years that I have been hunting deer and bear, I owned rifles in 24 different CF chamberings, from .17 Rem. to .32 Win. Our camp of the last 50 years has thick scrubs and marsh which could mean shots at point blank up to 400 yards ( my self imposed limit). Early on, it was a .32 Win, 30/06, and then a .243 for more than a few of my early years. Based on what I have observed I learned early-on that when using marginal cartridges, there is a greater risk of having to track a wounded animal which 1/ takes valuable personal hunting time away from other camp members and 2/ the injured animal travels deeper into the swamps where recovery can be a huge undertaking, and 3/ could put the tracker(s) in harms way (we've had a few serious encounters with both bear and antlered deer- stories for another day- but I can tell you as one who has BTDT facing a wounded animal tenacious for life -it can be an event that ruins an entire season).
I never even considered anything smaller than a .243 and have since went to 7mm/08.
Also, IME, MOST hunters over-estimate their marksmanship skills ( I spent a lot of time at our local club ranges) and many that shoot paper well have problems when shooting live game.
Stack the deck in your favor....the animal deserves an ethical kill, your hunting buddies deserve their own time, make recovery of the animal more likely and easier > use an adequate cartridge for the job at hand.
Just MY opinion based on life experience....and I have been fortunate to have hunted the full PA season since after my educational years which ended in '71.
I never even considered anything smaller than a .243 and have since went to 7mm/08.
Also, IME, MOST hunters over-estimate their marksmanship skills ( I spent a lot of time at our local club ranges) and many that shoot paper well have problems when shooting live game.
Stack the deck in your favor....the animal deserves an ethical kill, your hunting buddies deserve their own time, make recovery of the animal more likely and easier > use an adequate cartridge for the job at hand.
Just MY opinion based on life experience....and I have been fortunate to have hunted the full PA season since after my educational years which ended in '71.
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Just hunt like a sniper. Slip in and slip out.
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