Copper bullets, I am over it.

[Fclassfool]

Yet to have the TTSX fail me so I'll stick with it.

 

[SD guy]

Like I said guys, respect to you all and I am not putting anyone down. This is just a "me" observation. I appreciate the good discussion we are having and I am trying to keep a VERY open mind. I am open to hearing and pondering it all, that is how we learn. Thanks everyone for the respectful exchange!

One of my best buddies swears by Barnes, he kept telling me I was wrong. Now he has switched to Bonded lead core bullets but he wont say why, but I know! I helped try and track a couple Barnes shot deer we never found this year. Was it him? Was it the bullet? I dunno but he is a dang fine hunter, makes me wonder. In all fairness I must say he is using the 6 BR caliber, I do not think it is enough gun myself but to each his own, he killed many a deer with it, until he didnt.

Enough chamber? Yes I feel no question the boiler room is very capable. What I may question is, if the rifle barrel, has enough twist to handle the better - longer - hunting bullets that facilitate improved penetration in the event the shot is placed improperly for the bullet being used.

 

[SD guy]

Yet to have the TTSX fail me so I'll stick with it.View attachment 1614625

Wow considerably more carnage than I am used to seeing with monolithic offerings.

 

[searcher]

Nathan Foster in NZ is that expert and I urge you to explore his website fully to examine the vast experience gained as a guide and long range shooter.
He also has several books on rifle selection and long range game shooting and works closely with some of the big projectile manufacturers on their projectile terminal performance.
In frustration with a 7mm RUM he developed the 7mm Practical that performs very nearly as well but doesn't suffer from premature throat erosion and I have seen one of these shoot a sub 3" group at 1000yds.

Based on the write-up he did, he should then have been better able to sell reasons why copper bullets are "inferior". I'd expect an "expert" on the subject would provide at least some technical base to support his opinion. His videos did nothing to support what he was saying - rather, they made him look like he didn't know what he was talking about. If it were about how poorly a copper bullet performs when shots are not well placed - he did well. If I video an animal being poorly shot with lead bullets (with a small caliber) and blame the bullet, is that more acceptable? I hope not.

 

[TTE]

What I may question is, if the rifle barrel, has enough twist to handle the better - longer - hunting bullets that facilitate improved penetration in the event the shot is placed improperly for the bullet being used.

In my case, I'm betting that a guy about to go on an expensive safari is not going to pick inaccurate ammo, so the barrel must be up to the task. The same would go for hunters that comment here. Pretty sure none of them are going with inaccurate hunting loads/ammo.

 

[Fclassfool]

Wow considerably more carnage than I am used to seeing with monolithic offerings.

That's a 130gr TTSX out of my 270 STW @3600fps

 

[searcher]

This is 100% accurate.

No one want to be told that their bullet .... rifle .... cartridge was the wrong choice.

Everyone wants to boast about those things and never want to hear that their choice sucked

Just for clarification, I was referring to the public not wanting to be mandated by government about bullet choices of lead VS copper....

 

[TTE]

Just for clarification, I was referring to the public not wanting to be mandated by government about bullet choices of lead VS copper....

Doesn't matter ..... the comment remains the same

 

[searcher]

In the past, I’ve hunted in places where if a deer ran 70 to 125 yds, someone else would have a bullet in it and claiming they killed it. To me that’s not acceptable performance. Wherever you hunt, that is acceptable. I understand.

I think that is where this debate could go on forever between lead and copper. Whether one shoots lead or copper, and have shot a lot of animals with both, they know that even when put right through the heart and/or lungs, deer can sometimes still run "dead" further than 50 yards. So - I'm guessing you opt for head, spine or shoulder shot to immobilize the deer where you hunt?

I've hunted on public land years back where any deer running through a valley was passing through the "gauntlet" of hunters that materialized out of now where when I thought I had the place to myself when hiking in pre-dawn. Dang!

 

[searcher]

I wasn't cont

Doesn't matter ..... the comment remains the same

I wasn't contesting what you said - quite the contrary. I just wasn't sure you knew what was I referring to.

 

[MQ1]

I’ve killed deer with cup and core, solid copper, soft cast lead, hard cast lead, expandable broadheads and fixed broadheads. Each option has a sweet spot in performance. Even with the best shot placement, I’ve had deer travel anywhere from 2 feet to a hundred yards. I have come to accept that solid copper is alot like hardcast, where shot placement is key to a short tracking job. I’m curious to try Lehigh Defenses’s Controlled Chaos, as it seems to be a great compromise between solid copper and copper jacketed lead core bullets. This winter will be the coyote tests…next year will be the deer test.

MQ1

 

[Bc'z]

Yet to have the TTSX fail me so I'll stick with it.View attachment 1614625

I tried Barnes for the 1st time this year and came away wondering if it was to much bullet.
140ttsx @ 3125 mv 280ai
I was wanting a lead free 1 and done Elk, bear, dear load.
High shoulder knocked him down with authority, no tracking necessary.

 

[DiffEQ]

Well, you don't live in the Republik of Kalifornia, so don't use them.

 

[DiffEQ]

For guys that like shooting roasts and other groceries:

Its fun and entertaining, but really isn't indicative of how a bullet will perform on live tissue.

When we butcher our meat, we typically get rid of the hide and hair, we get rid of fascia, and we get rid of sinew, and all of the connective tissue. We separate muscle groups and all of the blood is gone from the meat before it is packaged. There is no longer a heart pumping fresh blood through arteries and veins. The effects on game are much different than nice, tasty clean meat so we should be careful not to infer too much through them.

Seems to me there's a good use for road kill, then.

 

[SixFive]

I tried Barnes for the 1st time this year and came away wondering if it was to much bullet.
140ttsx @ 3125 mv 280ai
I was wanting a lead free 1 and done Elk, bear, dear load.
High shoulder knocked him down with authority, no tracking necessary.

Yeah that is a GREAT example of copper performance I am referring to, it can happen with them hitting heavy bone. Next time you "might" get a pin hole, that is my issue with these bullets, sometimes they act like hand grenades, sometimes they act like arrows. That picture really looks like an Alien exploded out of that deer LOL!

FYI, Great caliber you are shooting, maybe one of the best deer rounds ever created!

" Barnes Bullets are not perfect. They are not the optimum bullet for all things or all times. Nor do they always deliver the fastest kills." --- Ron Spomer

 

[justinp61]

My 300 gr Barnes ttsx in 458 win mag hammers deer and its only loaded to 2200 fps.

My brother accidentally hit a deer in the neck with a 160 ttsx 338 win mag and it didnt seem to do as much damage as I expected for 3200 fps. I guess it deflected there as he was aiming shoulder in some small sapling brush. Didnt catch spine but got arteries and it ran a good ways leaving good blood. No problem finding it tho. Going to revisit it next season

How big are y'all's deer? LOL

 

[JPB3]

I've shot about 20 deer and pigs with copper bullets.. I'll try to never buy another one.

Went back a few times over the years to try them again and got the same dismal performance, in several calibers..

 

[Bc'z]

FYI, Great caliber you are shooting, maybe one of the best deer rounds ever created!

" Barnes Bullets are not perfect. They are not the optimum bullet for all things or all times. Nor do they always deliver the fastest kills." --- Ron Spomer

Yeah it's a great cartridge settling the debate between 270 and 30-06 on which is better.
Its almost like you can hear P.O.Ackley tell Jack O'Connor "Hold my beer" lol
The mono through both shoulders was like Thor's Hammer with no lead or copper fragments left behind preforming exactly the way I'd hoped. But trust me I was worried about bullet performance from the beginning from all the gospel of failed performance I'd read on the internet.
Further testing on game is planned.

I read where you have a plentiful stash of TA, that's a good thing.

A buddy just paid $1.80 per bullet for 140gr TA for his 270, I'd say he's in love cuz that ain't a cheap date. Lol

 

[Turpentine]

As a hunter I have learned to HATE solid copper bullets. I know many of you think they are wonderful but I have tried, Barnes, Hammer, and Cutting Edge and simply do not see the terminal performance good bullets create like Terminal Ascent, Bondstrike, Partition, Ballistic Tip or Accubond. Do copper bullets kill deer? Sure but honestly I can kill a deer with a 22 rimfire, that doesn't make it the right bullet.

Even non premium bullets like CoreLokt, SST, and Hot Core perform better than copper in my opinion.

I have many different calibers and have tested copper bullets on deer for three years from 6mm Creedmoor to 300Rum same inconsistent performance half of the time. I like to dump a ton of energy on Target with a strong chance of a passthrough. I am not bragging guys but most of the deer I shoot with Bondstrike or Terminal Ascent FALL OVER IN PLACE, BANG FLOP. I know, I know sometimes they just run regardless but I am telling you out of the last 7 deer shot with Bondstrike bullets they were 100% bang flops (I shoot high shoulder towards the neck). I rarely see this from copper, they do not go far but they do go unless I neck shoot them.

I truly gave solid copper a fair chance, among my many friends I have seen the inconsistency of especially Barnes. To slow doesn't open well, to fast it pin holes. I just do not have time for it and I am over it. Rant over

The final straw was last night my friend had a perfect heart lung with 130ttsx from a 30-06 about 100yards, tracked that stupid deer for an hour went over 100 yards. We skinned it out at my house and it once again was a PIN hole through and through, perfect shot but horrible expansion and complete pass through dumping little to no energy in the deer.

One note in fairness: Copper can be very destructive bullets WHEN heavy bone is hit. I will also concede solid coppers have a place in Africa.

I know all the fans of copper will chime in here with stories and pictures of devastated deer they have killed with copper, good for you, my experience is they are INCONSISTANT, do great one time and the next who knows.

I will be selling off every solid copper bullet I own shortly, I have a bunch!

Thank you for this! I've never shot copper and my hope is that I never have too. I get great performance out of the regular offerings and have no reason to change.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Yeah it's a great cartridge settling the debate between 270 and 30-06 on which is better.
Its almost like you can hear P.O.Ackley tell Jack O'Connor "Hold my beer" lol
The mono through both shoulders was like Thor's Hammer with no lead or copper fragments left behind preforming exactly the way I'd hoped. But trust me I was worried about bullet performance from the beginning from all the gospel of failed performance I'd read on the internet.
Further testing on game is planned.

I read where you have a plentiful stash of TA, that's a good thing.

A buddy just paid $1.80 per bullet for 140gr TA for his 270, I'd say he's in love cuz that ain't a cheap date. Lol

Is that Terminal Accent still being marketed as a reloading bullet? I always assumed it was just in Federal’s loaded ammo.