Copper bullets, I am over it.

[SixFive]

WOW, that shocks me about the hammer bullets. I absolutely love them in .257 , .284 , .308. BANG FLOP. My 250 Savage , model 99 impressed me BIGTIME with the power hammers. Shot a buck quartering to me and got heart , lungs and found bullet under the skin in opposite hind quarter.

I have had some success with Hammers, more than Barnes for sure. But I am just turned off on copper all together now I guess. Hammer in my opinion is a better design than Barnes. But just not for me my friend.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

For the suggestion box:
ballistics gel will show you what damage your bullet does, or cheaper, buy a roast, wrap it in plastic wrap, and shoot it.

The thought of wasting a good beef roast brings tears to my eyes.

 

[markm87]

The stories of increased copper fouling were enough to steer me away from these bullets.

 

[Gary in MD]

In my experience, the cup and core bullets absolutely kill quicker. Although I did recently take 9 animals in South Africa with the Barnes TTSX with no drama and have taken a few deer back home with them.
Usually a deer hit with a Berger, Ballistic tip or a Sierra is a bang flop for me. If I think that I'm going to need more penetration, then I can see using the Barnes with confidence.
I don't like that a state would require them due to some misinformation on lead. But I've heard that more than a few more states are considering the same lead bans as California and I've spoken with guys that feel it's just a matter of time. I won't like it if forced to hunt with lead free ammo, but I won't give up my shooting/hunting over it that's for sure. YMMV

 

[drop_point]

Between my circle of friends, we've killed close to thirty whitetail with Barnes TSX and TTSX bullets. A friend of mine has killed scores of African game with the TSX.

I think oftentimes people "think" they made a good shot when they in fact didn't. If you put a bullet square through the heart, there is no chance the animal lives long. Typically, copper is somewhat akin to using an arrow. The bullets penetrate more and hold together.

Sometimes holding together is a good thing, sometimes it is not a good thing. On the flip side, I've had traditional hunting bullets come apart and I've pulled fragments from all over the animal from shots behind the shoulder where the ribs destroyed the bullet.

Maybe I'll change my mind sometime, but the TSX has worked great for me, especially the 70gr in an AR15.

 

[Jonnyofalltrades]

My only real experience is the 120 tsx in 7mm Rem.
I've been shooting them for about 13 years. Roughly a dozen animals, deer, elk, coyote, wolf, etc.
Couldn't possibly be happier with the accuracy and terminal performance. I am right now hunting late season elk with my son. I told him to take any angle of shot that presents itself.
I definitely wouldn't be saying that if I was still using 162 SST's. I had several of them fragment excessively, and then one that only penetrated about 4" after hitting bone. I was done with them right there.
I have had some fellows comment on a "pinhole entrance and exit". On closer examination, the heart/lungs were soup. The bullet had expanded just fine, but they weren't seeing the massive blood-shot surface damage they were accustomed to.

 

[SixFive]

Between my circle of friends, we've killed close to thirty whitetail with Barnes TSX and TTSX bullets. A friend of mine has killed scores of African game with the TSX.

I think oftentimes people "think" they made a good shot when they in fact didn't. If you put a bullet square through the heart, there is no chance the animal lives long. Typically, copper is somewhat akin to using an arrow. The bullets penetrate more and hold together.

Sometimes holding together is a good thing, sometimes it is not a good thing. On the flip side, I've had traditional hunting bullets come apart and I've pulled fragments from all over the animal from shots behind the shoulder where the ribs destroyed the bullet.

Maybe I'll change my mind sometime, but the TSX has worked great for me, especially the 70gr in an AR15.

I have no doubt there are people who love them and have good experience with them, I respect everyone and their experiences. Ever notice though how there is never a debate about a Nosler Partition or an Accubond bullet, it is always the copper bullet that seems to be the topic. I have really put some thought into it and tried to figure out why some people have such good performance and others do not. I do not think it is all shot placement as myself and other friends are benchrest shooters and hunters, we usually get the correct placement, not always but mostly. I wonder if it is the speed or distance, maybe the animal size? I just cannot figure it, but I do know we do not have these issues with lead core bullets, bonded or not. My very best friend totally agrees with you and LOVES them, he thinks I am nuts, LOL!!! Good hunting my friend!

 

[SixFive]

Here is a picture of the other night, I shot the doe on the right with a 26 Nosler and the 143gr Bondstrike bullet, she fell over dead, never even wiggled a leg, instant. My friend shot the deer on the left (buck) with the Barnes 130hr TTSX in a .308 almost identical shot placement, we tracked and tracked with poor blood trail. Luck? Circumstance? I will never know but it has happened enough now I do not think it is circumstance. Nice fat doe huh? LOL

 

[Orr89rocz]

My 300 gr Barnes ttsx in 458 win mag hammers deer and its only loaded to 2200 fps.

My brother accidentally hit a deer in the neck with a 160 ttsx 338 win mag and it didnt seem to do as much damage as I expected for 3200 fps. I guess it deflected there as he was aiming shoulder in some small sapling brush. Didnt catch spine but got arteries and it ran a good ways leaving good blood. No problem finding it tho. Going to revisit it next season

 

[hogpatrol]

A lot depends on the rifle, the game and the hunter's acceptable accuracy. If all that's needed is 2 moa at 100-200 yards in a factory rifle, many bullets will suffice. Step up to longer ranges and the bullet selection narrows. For those that use Barnes, copper prices aren't going down anytime soon. Stock up.

 

[Guybo]

Speer Hot-Cors for 35yrs and counting

 

[SixFive]

My 300 gr Barnes ttsx in 458 win mag hammers deer and its only loaded to 2200 fps.

My brother accidentally hit a deer in the neck with a 160 ttsx 338 win mag and it didnt seem to do as much damage as I expected for 3200 fps. I guess it deflected there as he was aiming shoulder in some small sapling brush. Didnt catch spine but got arteries and it ran a good ways leaving good blood. No problem finding it tho. Going to revisit it next season

Umm well yeah it is a 458 Win Mag I imagine anything it shoots it pretty DRT Deer cannot stand flying bricks!

 

[Homerange]

It's real:

Copper bullets can be inhumane

The truth about copper bullets versus lead core bullet designs

www.ballisticstudies.com

 

[SixFive]

It's real:

Copper bullets can be inhumane

The truth about copper bullets versus lead core bullet designs

www.ballisticstudies.com

INTERESTING! Thanks for sharing that, kinda supports my thinking. It also supports Hammers better performance vs Barnes.

 

[Orr89rocz]

It certainly is advised to use lighter for caliber coppers and drive them as fast as possible to get them to really open. Im surprised those of some of the stories mentioned here with lighter ttsx loads

 

[SixFive]

It certainly is advised to use lighter for caliber coppers and drive them as fast as possible to get them to really open. Im surprised those of some of the stories mentioned here with lighter ttsx loads

You know I thought that exact same thing. So I loaded up 100gr TTSX in my .257 WBY Magnum and shot a medium doe, good behind the shoulder shot, she ran about 50 yards, ZERO blood, pencil hole in and out. Internals were pretty destroyed from the high velocity. Shot a near same shot with this rifle with a 110gr Accubond, never took a step, but if she had tracking would have been easy. Just the experiences I was having.

 

[10XSHOOTER]

Don't Take away my Accubonds!

 

[painter]

Bullets can be overdriven, this is where cup and core bullets get a bad reputation, shoot a deer in the shoulders at 15 yards and that bullet will come apart same shot at 100 yards and it will perform as it should.

 

[SixFive]

Bullets can be overdriven, this is where cup and core bullets get a bad reputation, shoot a deer in the shoulders at 15 yards and that bullet will come apart same shot at 100 yards and it will perform as it should.

Yeah, I shoot a lot of extremely fast calibers like the Noslers and 6.5-300wby so I use strong bonded bullets like Terminal Ascent, Bondstrike and Accubond in them. They seem to perform well near and far.I blow most cup and core to pieces

 

[drop_point]

I have no doubt there are people who love them and have good experience with them, I respect everyone and their experiences. Ever notice though how there is never a debate about a Nosler Partition or an Accubond bullet, it is always the copper bullet that seems to be the topic. I have really put some thought into it and tried to figure out why some people have such good performance and others do not. I do not think it is all shot placement as myself and other friends are benchrest shooters and hunters, we usually get the correct placement, not always but mostly. I wonder if it is the speed or distance, maybe the animal size? I just cannot figure it, but I do know we do not have these issues with lead core bullets, bonded or not. My very best friend totally agrees with you and LOVES them, he thinks I am nuts, LOL!!! Good hunting my friend!

On speed, the TSX needs to go about 2,000 FPS or faster to work. They did come out with an LRX version that can go quite a bit slower and still open up. Most cup and core bullets and partitions are 1800 FPS. Some of the "LR" bullets are down as low as 1400 FPS.

I've had problems with the partition in the past, believe it or not. I've lost three deer in my life and two of the three were partitions. The other, a 143 gr ELD-X. The Accubond I've never had a problem with and have used them quite a bit. I'm also liking the Terminal Ascent but they are so hard to find in stock and are VERY expensive. You gotta use what you have confidence in!