Accuracy of electronic targets

[dannyjbiggs]

AJ, being a geek, the idea really excites me, especially after having had several experiences where I could have taken naps every time my target went down. I wish I could see one of these professional systems in action! From what you said, I take it you can link in to the system with your own notebook or device and put it where you are most comfortable? That would be great! What do you do about glare on your Galaxy screen....have you found a glare shield that actually works? When the sun is out, I can't see squat on my laptop, my iPad or my IPhone! We have a covered bench firing line at Bridgeville but the prone line is not covered and in the summer it is in full sun. I saw a thing called a Hoodie the other day, but not sure it would help.

Unh...ooooh............strike up the fife and drums, boys; and play the tune, "World Turned Upside Down". F-Class as we know it is rolling over!

Dan

 

[aj300mag]

[quote author=lmmike ]

There ya go, that's just what I was waiting for. Our point of aim with the report is all that matters. We will adjust regardless of the holes in the paper that we can't see anyway. I have no doubt this is a good thing by what the Aussies say. I might get to eat lunch every day this time! This thing is going spoil us. Lol
[/quote]

Hey Mike!

During our demo a few of my "friends" who shall remain nameless to protect the guilty thought it would be funny to park a shot out at the outside edge of the "8" ring @ 9:00 . The shot hit exactly at the POA. I didn't need the help, I'm fully capable of putting a shot out there myself... ;D

 

[aj300mag]

AJ, being a geek, the idea really excites me, especially after having had several experiences where I could have taken naps every time my target went down. I wish I could see one of these professional systems in action! From what you said, I take it you can link in to the system with your own notebook or device and put it where you are most comfortable? That would be great! What do you do about glare on your Galaxy screen....have you found a glare shield that actually works? When the sun is out, I can't see squat on my laptop, my iPad or my IPhone! We have a covered bench firing line at Bridgeville but the prone line is not covered and in the summer it is in full sun. I saw a thing called a Hoodie the other day, but not sure it would help.

Yes the target system broadcast over wifi. All you have to do is have wifi enabled on your device, go to the screen in your settings that shows the wifi networks that are available and connect to the target wifi. From there you go to your browser and type in the ip address of the system and it connects you to the target page. As far as the screen, the Galaxy has one of the best screens available. All I had to do is turn the brightness up to the max. The i-stuff might be a little different, I've heard that the i-6 variants are suppose to work well in direct sunlight. I'd have to steal my wife's phone to verify if it's true.

 

[Dos XX]

Mini tripod for the monitor. Spotting scope on one side, monitor on the other side. Or, mount your phone/monitor on top of your spotting scope?

With a 7 second delay between shots, you need a 2 minute and 6 second condition. Dual port with ejector and rock out.

I gotta order some more barrels.

 

[Bindi2]

Mini tripod for the monitor. Spotting scope on one side, monitor on the other side. Or, mount your phone/monitor on top of your spotting scope?

With a 7 second delay between shots, you need a 2 minute and 6 second condition. Dual port with ejector and rock out.

I gotta order some more barrels.

Don't have the 7 second delay ( it will cause problems in scoring) then you can really rock and roll. I have scored for some that worked out and for more that crashed big time. Try it you will have to learn some things for your selves we all do.
Rules state NO personal electronic devices allowed on the mound. Security comes to mind as well as non allowable outside help for the shooter. Tuff about that already been dealt with before we started.
Kongsberg screens work fine the others I have not seen.

 

[Zilla]

How does a 7 second delay cause a problem with scoring?

 

[Bindi2]

How does a 7 second delay cause a problem with scoring?

Identifying cross fires. The shooter has no idea which is his shot in real time the scorer knows if he is doing his job correctly.

 

[Bindi2]

Look at the scoring issue this way.
Would you be happy with a crossfire that awarded a shooter a higher score than they shot which put them in front of you when their real score would have been the same and the count back /X ring count would have given you the prize or an outright win.
7 second delay can and does award the wrong shooter as does taking the highest score.
The time delay requirement is usually put up by those who are slow shooters and who think they will loose more than those who are decisive and quicker than them.

 

[Zilla]

Look at the scoring issue this way.
Would you be happy with a crossfire that awarded a shooter a higher score than they shot which put them in front of you when their real score would have been the same and the count back /X ring count would have given you the prize or an outright win.
7 second delay can and does award the wrong shooter as does taking the highest score.
The time delay requirement is usually put up by those who are slow shooters and who think they will loose more than those who are decisive and quicker than them.

You seem to know everyones motivations and style of shooting. I think we should have a delay and I think most people who know me will agree that I am not a slow shooter. Crossfires do not happen all that often, although I can see that on ETs, the chances are greater.

 

[Bindi2]

Zilla you are entitled to your opinion as I am the only difference in this case I have had 4 years experience with ETs. The NRAA has decided in its wisdom not to have a time delay. The push for the delay from a vocal bunch of shooters was defeated by the board vote which is one from each state. In other words more than half the states voted against it.
Just one crossfire can destroy some ones chances.
One 5 day event I attended recently had over 30 crossfires. The most expensive cross fire at that event cost a team the gold medal.
Some ranges are worse than other because of where the numbers are for F C others the sling shooters have a problem.
The scoring problem just does not need to be left in place when an easy fix is there.

 

[Steve Blair]

Zilla you are entitled to your opinion as I am the only difference in this case I have had 4 years experience with ETs. The NRAA has decided in its wisdom not to have a time delay. The push for the delay from a vocal bunch of shooters was defeated by the board vote which is one from each state. In other words more than half the states voted against it.
Just one crossfire can destroy some ones chances.
One 5 day event I attended recently had over 30 crossfires. The most expensive cross fire at that event cost a team the gold medal.
Some ranges are worse than other because of where the numbers are for F C others the sling shooters have a problem.
The scoring problem just does not need to be left in place when an easy fix is there.

[br]
What a happy coincidence that you shoot under Australian rules with which you agree. In the United States, we shoot under our own rules that differ from Australian and ICFRA rules in several respects. This is apparently one of them. If you feel that strongly about it, the best plan would be avoiding travel to US competitions where your match could be ruined by someone else's crossfire. ??? [br]
BTW, Mr. Gosnell (Zilla) is the current US Long Range F-Open champ and his opinion is regarded somewhat more favorably here.

 

[Bindi2]

Zilla you are entitled to your opinion as I am the only difference in this case I have had 4 years experience with ETs. The NRAA has decided in its wisdom not to have a time delay. The push for the delay from a vocal bunch of shooters was defeated by the board vote which is one from each state. In other words more than half the states voted against it.
Just one crossfire can destroy some ones chances.
One 5 day event I attended recently had over 30 crossfires. The most expensive cross fire at that event cost a team the gold medal.
Some ranges are worse than other because of where the numbers are for F C others the sling shooters have a problem.
The scoring problem just does not need to be left in place when an easy fix is there.

[br]
What a happy coincidence that you shoot under Australian rules with which you agree. In the United States, we shoot under our own rules that differ from Australian and ICFRA rules in several respects. This is apparently one of them. If you feel that strongly about it, the best plan would be avoiding travel to US competitions where your match could be ruined by someone else's crossfire. ??? [br]
BTW, Mr. Gosnell (Zilla) is the current US Long Range F-Open champ and his opinion is regarded somewhat more favorably here.

Just hope he dosent lose a match to a cross fire he may just change his mind right about then.

 

[Zilla]

I'm curious, did the team that lost because of a crossfire, shoot a crossfire or did someone crossfire on their target? Was this on electronic targets?

 

[Bindi2]

I'm curious, did the team that lost because of a crossfire, shoot a crossfire or did someone crossfire on their target? Was this on electronic targets?

I crossfired. The notable thing about this was that it was the first crossfire at the event which became a stream of admissions to me (just done one ,joined your club ) and a long discussion over the event about crossfires and the ramifications from them with the damage done to shooters pre ETs.
Yes on ETs just a lost shot no gain. Scorer doing his job well called crossfire.

 

[daniel.chisholm]

AJ, being a geek, the idea really excites me, especially after having had several experiences where I could have taken naps every time my target went down. I wish I could see one of these professional systems in action![....snip.....] We have a covered bench firing line at Bridgeville [....]

Do you shoot in Bridgeville, Delaware? If so, one of your club members has *just* received delivery of an SMT one-target system last week.... and could quite possibly appreciate the assistance of a useful geek. Contact me offline (daniel.chisholm at gmail.com) and I'll try to put you guys in touch with each other...)

 

[spclark]

Do you shoot in Bridgeville, Delaware? If so, one of your club members has *just* received delivery of an SMT one-target system last week.... and could quite possibly appreciate the assistance of a useful geek.

Hear's hoping their weather over there remains favorable for a few more days (weeks!) than ours here in the northern midwest! I Doubt Very Much if I'll see another day at the range before April :-\

 

[Mark Walker in TX]

A change in the target system/process alone should not fundamentally change the game, IMO. Not having a delay is a fundamental change, and therefore I will strongly recommend a delay of 7-8 seconds.

Crossfires can be dealt with simply and effectively, and really I am not even understanding the big issue with them anyway. Shooter fires and ET does not show a hit - scorekeeper registers a miss. (Does not matter if miss or crossfire, it's a miss.) Shooter does not fire and a shot shows up, scorekeeper deletes score. Simple as that.
Changing the game entirely to deal with just them because we have a different target system, that would just be silly...

Now, I am having some concern with everyone having communication devices on the firing line. Monitors are, of course, fine. But iPads and Phones? What happens if shooters are in "cahoots" and start contacting each other during their strings? Cheating is an unfortunate reality, and it seems this might easily facilitate. Thoughts?

Also, specifically for Lodi, will there be two monitors provided each point for team matches? There is no way for a monitor to be visible to all the shooter, the coach, the scorekeeper & the scorechecker.

 

[Dos XX]

And if shooter fires and two hits show on monitor, he gets the higher score. It is in the current rules. Really no questions here without a rule change, unless I am missing something.

Now, can an ET register two hits fired at, or really close to, the same time? I have seen two holes show up on target really close to the same time.

 

[Lbart]

Mark,
Your mention of monitors brings to mind my somewhat limited experience with target video cameras. Many of the phones/ laptop/ tablets are almost impossible to see in the sun.

Even in the individual matches the shooter and scorers have to be able to easily see & read the screens. In a major match such as the FC Nat’s all the monitors/data receivers need to be the same for everyone. They must be readable in all conditions. Shooter supplied equipment would not be fair or always workable IMO.

Another item I would like to comment on is the calibration of the targets. The data (shot placement and score) displayed on the computer screen must agree with aiming mark on the targets themselves. If a competitor goes into a match with a known no wind zero he should be able to use that data if the wind changes direction or goes into a boil. Some have commented here that even if the calibration is off it would not make any difference you just compensate to get your hits on the screen in to the middle of the monitor display, or words to that effect. No way…. It should be the other way round.

Calibration is the key to happy shooters and must be checked regularly.

 

[XTR]

Bindi2, you ssem to be under the impression that someone is supposed to tell you if you crossfire. In other than a club match the scorer is not supposed to tell you anything but your score and number of shots. I crossfired in the 2012 matches at Raton. Scorer called for a mark, miss, in the middle of a string if 10s. I challenged, NRA referee was standing there. Al I was told was "the miss stands", nobody ever told me I crossfired until after the match.

By the US rules:

c) If a shooter receives a confirmed crossfire shot and it is impossible
to determine which shot is his, he must be credited with the value of the highest undetermined shot


I don't see your crossfire issue